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#21
Miamirice

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I don't always agree with Jim, but I do this time. A spec shock that is truely sealed, TAMPERPROOF. with a cost of under $200 each would be perfect. get the length right, get the mounts right. Come up with some sort of a ride height and/or Camber rule and we may have an even better class. Remember these Bilsteins are street car shocks off the 1993 Miata M Edition. They are nothing special. We have figured out how to make them work, but at what expense?

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#22
lillyweld

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If Bilstein can't even maintain an inventory for us AND the current shocks are old AND current shocks are out-of-date AND we are sacrificing performance by using the current shocks  . . . and on and on . . . shouldn't we be debating a new spec shock as vehemently as we are debating tires? {Sorry for the big word, Danica.)


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#23
Steve Scheifler

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Out of date seems irrelevant, we don’t need anything more technologically advanced than has exitsted for decades, but add questionable QC to your list of concerns about the current shocks, particularly the newest versions.
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#24
FTodaro

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If we do look at a new shock, lets make sure we can still use the fat cat bump stop since many people had to go out and buy new because they were not from Fat Cat directly. That does not affect me personally, but we keep adding on cost to the bill. Its like the federal government, with no tax cut. lol.


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#25
Tom Sager

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If we do look at a new shock, lets make sure we can still use the fat cat bump stop since many people had to go out and buy new because they were not from Fat Cat directly. That does not affect me personally, but we keep adding on cost to the bill. Its like the federal government, with no tax cut. lol.

 

I think one of the goals of changing shocks would be to eliminate the bump stop altogether in the equation.  To spec something that has sufficient travel at our typical ride height that doesn't bottom out on a plastic spring?


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#26
FTodaro

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I think one of the goals of changing shocks would be to eliminate the bump stop altogether in the equation.  To spec something that has sufficient travel at our typical ride height that doesn't bottom out on a plastic spring?

see there you go Sager, always upping the budget.


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#27
Tom Sager

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see there you go Sager, always upping the budget.

 

Your trailer and tow vehicle are much nicer than mine :).


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#28
FTodaro

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Just to be clear after my multiple posts about budget.

 

I would be all in if we get a better tire with harder compound and longer life. After that, I would be all in for getting a better shock matched to the new tire for a reasonable cost. Best to get the tire then mate a shock to it.  That would be the best of all worlds.

 

Ralph, get that done by the end of the month please.


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#29
Johnny D

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Hey, hey, hey, this is a family PG racing site. We can’t have a tire mounting and mating a shock!!
Well maybe in the backfire video section... just a few though.

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#30
Johnny D

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So is Marc in charge of the tire or shock testing or both for the official new SM tire and shock combo of 2019?

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#31
Tom Sager

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see there you go Sager, always upping the budget.

Here's where the budget gets upped.  If we're looking at shocks we should also look for a front sway bar that actually fits on the car.  One where the end mounting points line up vertically with the control arm mounts.


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#32
davew

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This is going to ramble, just bear with me.

 

Back in the old days, I was on the SMAC. We had problems with people squishing fuel regulators and playing with ECU's to get more performance. The SMAC decided to allow the slotted timing wheels. We wanted to create an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The NA's where easy, but the NB's had to be figured out due to their tank mounted regulator. I volunteered to see what could be made. I bought several regulators, fitting, hoses and spent a bunch of time trying to come up with a system. I did, then I tested it to make sure it worked in real life. Then we passed a rule. Then CRB passed it and out comes a fast track saying we could run a fuel pressure regulator. I already had one, so I put it up for sale. SCCA got mad at me, said I used my position on the SMAC for personal gain.

 

Last year Mazda came out with a new front wheel bearing. Their testing was limited and the end product has shown to be not well liked.

 

If Hoosier comes up with a new tire, or a new shock, who should test it? My opinion is any big change needs to be tested in the real world. Not for a weekend, but for a season. Fast guys, slow guys, mid pack guys, new drivers, big budget and small budget needs to test. For example, a new tire may look great. No significant drop off over 8 cycles over one weekend. But what happens when it gets 2 heat cycles and sits for 3 months on an open trailer in the sun? What happens when they get cold, April in Wisconsin or October at Thunderhill? Will that October tire be any good the following April? All these variations will take a lot of time. Who is going to do that? I would do it. But would I get critcized by the SCCA or by other competitors for having an unfair advantage?

 

Shocks add even more variables. A shock that works at Blackhawk or NOLA, may not work at COTA or RA (either RA). The shock that Drago likes, may not work for the average mid packer. Steyn may not like the shock Drago likes. How will the weight differences between a 1.6 and a VVT car effect the shock? Will the new shock like the new tire? Will a better shock also require different springs?

 

Not a knock on their program, just an observation. The Global car was developed with 2 test drivers, both pro drivers who are very smooth and easy on equipment. Guess what, the car had teething issues when it went into production and a bunch of goofy amateurs got behind the wheel.

 

Look what happened when we had poor planning on the offset front bushings. There where none available, what good is a rule if it is impossible to follow it.

 

If we are going into a significant change, let's make sure we do it properly and for the right reasons. Those who do the testing will have an advantage, but they will also be doing a big service to the community. Hopefully there will be no secrets and we all can benefit.

 

Another can of gass on the fire

Dave


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#33
Muda

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A shock and spring matched to a tire???  Cool, we'll have one-upped the Global car.


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#34
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There have been comments on the FatCat shock mounting. How about some of you remembering why the FatCat came about.  Implement a tire with more usable heat cycles, implement a ride height rule at let's say 4 3/4 inches to the pinch weld, but measured at a surface that doesn't get smash changed, let people learn how to drive and that's a sure fire way to keep a healthy class. STOP the self centered changes. Oh, and how about someone find out the real reason why Bilstein shocks are not available. Ya, I understand the same people will win, that's not the point.


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#35
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I do not disagree with a word you said Dave. Its a big undertaking if done right. Up until a few weeks ago when i tried to buy a set of shocks, I had not given much thought to the shock issue. However from those smarter than me, I understand that the current shock is not produced within a narrow range of tolerance and we could do better. But if your going to go down that road, why not get the tire first. Not sure about Sway bars, we could go on forever.

 

Regarding tires, has anyone any experience with the Toyo R888 ® the new version of the R888?

 

https://www.toyotire...mpetition-tires


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#36
Bench Racer

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Frank, I don't agree with you and Ralph on your half window net. As a matter of fact, you've now pissed me off enough I'll write a CRB letter. Who really gives a crap about the bump/rebound tolerances of the Bilstein shock, seal them and get on with life in a great class. It's time to quit mugging the class for the few.


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#37
davew

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I do not know the reason for the back order on shocks. I know Mazda has been out since December IIRC. There are none to be found anywhere. I have looked into every warehouse and dark hole in the country. I even looked in Japan and Europe. I found a few in Europe, but with really expensive shipping. The problem is a manufacturers issue, not anyone in this country.

 

Now we come into this: At COTA post race impound was top 3 plus 2 random. They managed to get 5 cars from 5 different teams. Left rear shocks where dynoed. 3 tested fine, 2 tested different. So we removed right rear shocks, they also tested different. Note that all 4 of the different shocks tested identicle. I know that the 2 shocks we removed where dead stock out of the box. Believe me or not, but they where. The other competitor who also had the different graphs, swore his where also stock out of the box. Since they matched mine, I 100% believe him. So now we have untouched shocks that have different graphs. So what is the true spec shock. SCCA confiscated the 4 different shocks. I have not heard anything from them. But In light of the current shock situation, I would love to get them back.

 

Dave


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#38
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Frank, I don't agree with you and Ralph on your half window net. As a matter of fact, you've now pissed me off enough I'll write a CRB letter. Who really gives a crap about the bump/rebound tolerances of the Bilstein shock, seal them and get on with life in a great class. It's time to quit mugging the class for the few.

can you see the look of concern on my face?


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#39
Steve Scheifler

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I think we were away the last time that Bilstein changed/superseded the shocks so I’m not aware of what if any notice was given or what discussions occurred here. My perception is that QC suffered. Did the manufacturing site change?

A total depletion of stock of an item like this often means that production is being moved, or of course discontinued. Has anyone chased Bilstein for answers or at least confirmation that they will be producing more? This could get really ugly, really fast.

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#40
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can you see the look of concern on my face?

I hope for your you and your family's sake you never regret using a half window net. Picture yourself with only one functional arm. Probably not an issue you being a lawyer and all, you'd sue the SCCA and SFI for not specifying a full window net is required. How about forwarding me the picture you posted so I may include the picture with the CRB letter.


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