Jump to content

Photo

Pre-sealed motors?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,513 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

I learned something interesting this weekend that I was never aware of...that under the watchful eye of someone official from SCCA you can assemble a motor and then have it sealed. By doing this if you are ever pulled into impound, any tech involving opening up the motor you are given a pass. BUT, if you do well at the Runoffs you will be torn down just like everyone else.

 

So here are my questions...

 

1. Is this procedure public knowledge and is it documented so all can read about the process?

2. What exactly do they measure and check as the motor is assembled? 

3. What is the cost associated with this and is it available to all?

 

 


Ron

RAmotorsports

2014 NASA SM Western States Champion(Car owner)

2015 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2016 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2018 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

2018 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#2
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,448 posts

4. What is an appropriate amount to bribe an official.


  • Andy L, Danica Davison and Preston Pardus like this
2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#3
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,155 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

WTF you talking about Ron? Most everyone on this site says it's impossible to seal motors, shocks, anything. :rotfl:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#4
Tom Hampton

Tom Hampton

    Egregious Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,850 posts
  • Location:Mckinney, tx
  • Region:South west
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:41

I learned something interesting this weekend that I was never aware of...that under the watchful eye of someone official from SCCA you can assemble a motor and then have it sealed. By doing this if you are ever pulled into impound, any tech involving opening up the motor you are given a pass. BUT, if you do well at the Runoffs you will be torn down just like everyone else.
 
So here are my questions...


I'm just going to need you to look right here for a moment. Right at this shiny thing.

-tch
Build: www.tomhampton.info

video: vimeo.com/tomhampton

Support: X-Factor Racing

 

I didn't lose, I just got outspent!

Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#5
steveracer

steveracer

    Blue Eyes, Aquarius, hates being squeezed to the grass in SowDiv

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 394 posts
  • Location:Austin, Tx
  • Region:Lone Star
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:92

Wanna buy some PRIME beachfront property?


Steven Holloway

Artist formerly known as Chief Whipping Boy for Lone Star Region

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#6
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,513 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

I guess it is still April?

 

Ok...to be specific...the motor was built by Jesse Prather under the watchful eye of some SCCA official. SCCA put Tamper proof seals on the motor. 

 

This car was on the podium and pulled into Tech. One of the first things checked was to camera down inside the plug hole to look for correct pistons. When John Bauer walked up to this car he said "Oh, you are sealed" and moved on to the next car. After race 2 top 5 heads were pulled and 6th had to remove transmission. This car was 2nd and did not have to pull the head.

 

So, I will ask again, anyone have details of this program/procedure?


Ron

RAmotorsports

2014 NASA SM Western States Champion(Car owner)

2015 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2016 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2018 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

2018 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#7
Jesse Prather

Jesse Prather

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Location:Topeka
  • Region:Kansas

Nothing to hide here.  Most of you know I don't claim to be a Spec Miata engine builder however Tristan and his team came to me a couple of years ago to build them some engines.  The Collechio's (sp) are great people at TC Design so I agreed.  This new engine was being built as Rick Harris was coming on to tech at SCCA.  John Bauer and Rick came to my shop which is about 3 miles from SCCA and inspected the entire engine on the bench completely taken apart.  They checked EVERYTHING.  John was using it as a learning lesson for Rick.  They then watched me completely assemble the engine and then sealed it.  Simple deal.  

 

I'm not sure if they will travel to do this for other builders or if this was a one off deal, you'd have to call them and ask.  Yes it cost my customer extra initially however they did not have to pull the head last weekend so it's probably a wash or a savings. 


  • Ron Alan, Bench Racer, Jim Drago and 1 other like this

#8
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 5,945 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

I learned something interesting this weekend that I was never aware of...that under the watchful eye of someone official from SCCA you can assemble a motor and then have it sealed. By doing this if you are ever pulled into impound, any tech involving opening up the motor you are given a pass. BUT, if you do well at the Runoffs you will be torn down just like everyone else.

 

So here are my questions...

 

1. Is this procedure public knowledge and is it documented so all can read about the process?

2. What exactly do they measure and check as the motor is assembled? 

3. What is the cost associated with this and is it available to all?

I had the same thing done in 2015 and it was spoken about here.. so yes.. I would think this is known. Sealing an engine in that environment not the best idea.  ALl that buys you is they dont look at the head again, it seams tech has gotten good about not pulling the same people for heads as they were in 15.. so not sure this is even worth doing at this time. 

 

All they are guranteeing with seal is head.. if it goes back together and compression is wrong, you get no pass. 

it costs nothing if tech is there..


  • Ron Alan likes this

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#9
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 5,945 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

Nothing to hide here.  Most of you know I don't claim to be a Spec Miata engine builder however Tristan and his team came to me a couple of years ago to build them some engines.  The Collechio's (sp) are great people at TC Design so I agreed.  This new engine was being built as Rick Harris was coming on to tech at SCCA.  John Bauer and Rick came to my shop which is about 3 miles from SCCA and inspected the entire engine on the bench completely taken apart.  They checked EVERYTHING.  John was using it as a learning lesson for Rick.  They then watched me completely assemble the engine and then sealed it.  Simple deal.  

 

I'm not sure if they will travel to do this for other builders or if this was a one off deal, you'd have to call them and ask.  Yes it cost my customer extra initially however they did not have to pull the head last weekend so it's probably a wash or a savings. 

 

They will come to your shop. I asked in 15 and thought about doing all of mine in the off season for 16. We never got as far a firm price. But basically it was expenses to get them here and time.  Jesse is fortunate in this regard as as he is in Topeka. If I lived there, I would ask that they seal every one. 

Jim 


East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#10
Todd Lamb

Todd Lamb

    Driver Coach // Racer

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Yep this was talked about with SCCA but was never "officially" implemented for SM....no real benefit and the logistics of sealing 100+ motors made it not feasible.


Full disclosure: SMAC chairman, my opinions do not reflect anything to do with the SMAC unless specifically stated.

Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.atlspeedwerks.com
SpeedShift Transmissions - reliability and performance

Spec Miata / Spec Boxster / Spec Cayman specialist

Spec MX-5 Challenge Series Director

Global MX-5 Cup team

MX5 Cup Champion - Has won a Season in the MX5 Cup Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner Majors Winner - World Challenge Winner - World Challenge Winner

#11
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,513 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Thanks all for the info! I do remember now Jim talk about sealing your motor...but again that was at the track. It sounds like maybe this is just a one off...but technically available should anyone desire.


Ron

RAmotorsports

2014 NASA SM Western States Champion(Car owner)

2015 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2016 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2018 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

2018 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#12
BNaumann

BNaumann

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:DET
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:67

but technically available should anyone desire.


Technically available should a VOLUNTEER licensed tech inspector desire to sit in your garage for hours watching you assemble a motor.

#13
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 5,945 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

Thanks all for the info! I do remember now Jim talk about sealing your motor...but again that was at the track. It sounds like maybe this is just a one off...but technically available should anyone desire.

Ron

I believe it is.. But the costs would be paid by the competitor which may be cost prohibitive. 


East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#14
Terry Hanushek

Terry Hanushek

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Region:South Jersey

FYI

 

I don't see anything in the GCR which discusses or recognizes the sealing of components in Spec Miata. 

 

I recall brief discussions a few years ago about the benefits of sealed engines in SM but the sheer number of cars then running with unsealed engines and the large number of engine builders made implementation problematical.  I don't believe there was a formal proposal (there may have been a couple of letters to the CRB).  I would expect that any engine sealing proposal would need to cover all engines and all builders.

 

Terry



#15
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,513 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

So...if this isn't in the rules Terry, are you saying this was wrong?


Ron

RAmotorsports

2014 NASA SM Western States Champion(Car owner)

2015 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2016 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2018 NASA 25HR E3 Champion(Car owner)

2017 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

2018 NASA NORCAL SM Series Director

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#16
Terry Hanushek

Terry Hanushek

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Region:South Jersey

So...if this isn't in the rules Terry, are you saying this was wrong?

 

Ron

 

I'm not familiar with your specific example / observation so I can't really comment - it may have been an informal, one-time situation as Jesse mentioned.

 

What I said is that I see no method in the current rule book to seal SM engines at the build site or accept 'sealed' engines as compliant at the races.

 

Terry



#17
Mike Collins

Mike Collins

    Big Cheese

  • Moderators
  • 1,243 posts
  • Location:Summit Point Motorsports Park
  • Region:Washington DC
  • Car Number:75

I got mine sealed at the runoffs a couple of years ago. They put marks and seals on it and whenever inspected since I've never had to to take it apart.  Unfortunately I had to repair leaky valves prior to Indy and removed the seals to do so... If ever given the chance to reassemble with a seal at the track, I'd do it.


Mike "MEATHEAD" Collins
Founder - Partner
MEATHEADRacing
240-476-1593

www.meatheadracing.com
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Sugar Daddy - Made PayPal donation of $500+ Donor - Made PayPal donation Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. MX5 Cup Participant - Has Participated in a MX5Cup.com Series Event Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other

#18
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,208 posts
  • Location:California
Sealing.......bad.
  • Steve Scheifler likes this
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users