Jump to content

Photo

Future Runoffs Class Criteria Established

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,478 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

When can we put all the SM prep shop cars in their own class?

 

Lol. Would this include the cars that Drago builds, drives for a year and then sells to some larry who runs midpack?


John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#22
Jim Creighton

Jim Creighton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Region:Atlanta
  • Car Number:53

The single biggest impact this will have on everyone who does make the 4.0 and has a Runoffs slot is that entry fees will rise. The club members who no longer will have a Runoffs place will go somewhere else to race or quit. The rest of you will have to make up the lost $$ difference for all races including the Runoffs. Delete 25% of the cars and increase the entry fees and membership/license fee by 25%. Simple math. If that's ok, go for it.

 

What keeps getting over looked by the powers that be is that SCCA in a Club and as such, we have certain obligations to those who pay their dues and have done so for many years. Once we fail to meet those obligations, the member will go away never to return. Once that happens, the burden of expenses get redistributed to those that are left. Keep cutting the pie larger raises the cost per piece. What happens when they double or triple?

 

Right now, the SM piece is protected but maybe not so when the costs for SCCA races gets so high that more and more SM guys go elsewhere. Soon, nobody will be able to afford the SCCA pie.



#23
OrangeCrush86

OrangeCrush86

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • Location:BECKER
  • Region:Minnesota

Lol. Would this include the cars that Drago builds, drives for a year and then sells to some larry who runs midpack?

 

I'm looking to separate the arrive and drive guys that only have to focus on driving because I can't compete. :)


  • Danica Davison likes this

____________________________

http://jenkinsracing.com


#24
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Jim...Totally understand your point with regard to lost revenue. But how about this for a concept...SCCA cut waste across the board?

 

For every action there is a reaction...if SCCA is smart they will anticipate this and minimize the impact. I don't want to infer that SCCA is wasteful with our dues and entry fees but my guess is there is room for improvement! This along with combining classes seems like a win-win. 

 

At our last 2 regional events we had a run group with 2 cars...2 fuucking cars and 1 broke!!  The brain trust who run our region left every session in the schedule for this 1 car...genius. Apparently moving that one car to another group and adding the extra time to the remaining groups(or simply starting or ending early or later)was not in the cards because some people would not get the memo or be confused?????? Not only this but SM had 1 session between our qual and race 1...we were told the schedule couldn't be changed with only 4 days to go...WTF?? It's this kind of thinking that will be the end of SCCA. 

 

Culling the herd is part of life...disappointing a few will allow the rest to survive.


  • Bench Racer likes this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#25
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

 

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.


  • Tom Sager, mellen and Danica Davison like this

Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#26
BNaumann

BNaumann

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:DET
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:67

I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.


Actually I liked that about Indy. Only having to drive once per day made it very laid back and enjoyable. Of course if that time was 8am I wouldn't have been as happy. And I would've been even happier if I wasn't sleeping in a cargo trailer for 8 days.

#27
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Millennial thought from a Silent Generation member.

 

How about all drivers are not charged SCCA membership and also have zero cost race entry fee. After all we are providing something for all the workers and officials to do with their recreational time. :bigsquaregrin: while :rotfl:


  • callumhay likes this
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#28
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

I tried to post the car counts at the majors but could not get it to format.


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#29
38bfast

38bfast

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,113 posts
  • Location:Sterling Heights, MI
  • Region:OVR
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:38

I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

 

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.

Frank NASA can pull that off because they pack the track to its limit with combined classes. They don't have open wheel but they a allot of tin top and TT classes. 

 

So if you want a packed mix run group for the runoffs they could shorten the schedule. But saying people won't do the long schedule doesn't hold water when we had one 1000 cars at indy for a looooong week. 


Ralph Provitz
V2 Motorsports

#30
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 6,121 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

Pretty sure the 1000 cars was for the track.

How many you have this year or the year prior ??

 

Have you guys done a pole.

Like it shorter

Like it the way it is.

Like it longer ?  (most girls will go for this)

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#31
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,478 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

Frank NASA can pull that off because they pack the track to its limit with combined classes. They don't have open wheel but they a allot of tin top and TT classes. 
 
So if you want a packed mix run group for the runoffs they could shorten the schedule. But saying people won't do the long schedule doesn't hold water when we had one 1000 cars at indy for a looooong week.

 

Yes, but I think that was just the allure of Indianapolis.

 

2017 had 6256 total entries in Majors and 1000 entered into the Indy Runoffs

2016 had 4708 total entries in Majors and 580 entered into Ohio Runoffs

2015 had 4605 total entries in Majors and 591 entered into Daytona Runoffs

 

I am sure 2018 will be less than Ohio. Entries at Laguna were 530. I expect around the same number this year at Sonoma.


John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#32
BNaumann

BNaumann

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:DET
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:67
At Indy you could have just shown up for Thursday and Friday and run two races! Of course qualifying Wednesday would have been safer.

Ralph said it's too long and he's never doing another Runoffs but I bet he says that every year.

#33
BNaumann

BNaumann

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:DET
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:67
The 2017 bump was due to the entry criteria. Larries like me weren't invited in 2016. I bet 2018 will be low due to location and 2019 will be in the 750 range.

#34
OrangeCrush86

OrangeCrush86

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • Location:BECKER
  • Region:Minnesota

I think you need to be careful when looking at Runoff entries. Isn't it going to be highly affected by the changes in qualifying requirements? From what I understand 2017 would be the most accessible from a qualifying standpoint. Next would be the venue it self probably.


____________________________

http://jenkinsracing.com


#35
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 6,121 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

I think you need to be careful when looking at Runoff entries. Isn't it going to be highly affected by the changes in qualifying requirements? From what I understand 2017 would be the most accessible from a qualifying standpoint. Next would be the venue it self probably.

 

"I think",  "From what I understand" ?

 

Well definitely, probably, maybe this is right. But probably not if you really knew the numbers. :)

 

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#36
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

The single biggest impact this will have on everyone who does make the 4.0 and has a Runoffs slot is that entry fees will rise. The club members who no longer will have a Runoffs place will go somewhere else to race or quit. The rest of you will have to make up the lost $$ difference for all races including the Runoffs. Delete 25% of the cars and increase the entry fees and membership/license fee by 25%. Simple math. If that's ok, go for it.

What keeps getting over looked by the powers that be is that SCCA in a Club and as such, we have certain obligations to those who pay their dues and have done so for many years. Once we fail to meet those obligations, the member will go away never to return. Once that happens, the burden of expenses get redistributed to those that are left. Keep cutting the pie larger raises the cost per piece. What happens when they double or triple?

Right now, the SM piece is protected but maybe not so when the costs for SCCA races gets so high that more and more SM guys go elsewhere. Soon, nobody will be able to afford the SCCA pie.


Jim, your points would sound reasonable if not for the fact that for years the club has acknowledged they have too many classes one moment, then add more the next. This is not a new problem yet they keep making it worse. There needs to be some short-term pain before it’s too late, if it isn’t already. Total car counts may have to go down and fees go up until the right balance is struck, but given the outrageous cost of tires (to be competitive), the shrinking on-track time per weekend (especially rarely if ever getting a practice session without doing an extra day) and the lack of any real competition in all but maybe 3 classes, I see very little value these days. If paying 25% more on entry fees solved a couple of those issues it would be a bargain.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#37
OrangeCrush86

OrangeCrush86

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • Location:BECKER
  • Region:Minnesota

"I think",  "From what I understand" ?

 

Well definitely, probably, maybe this is right. But probably not if you really knew the numbers. :)

 

J~

 

I have only raced SM for one year so I have to tread lightly or I'll get labeled as a know-it-all millennial.


____________________________

http://jenkinsracing.com


#38
Jim Creighton

Jim Creighton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Location:Atlanta
  • Region:Atlanta
  • Car Number:53

Steve, sadly I agree with most everything you said. SCCA has managed to speak out of both sides of its' mouth concerning the number of classes. And when they have had a chance to consolidate, they back off at the last minute. To me, 21 has always been the number of Runoffs classes that makes the most sense. It's 7 classes a day at the Runoffs and is both the number of races and post race inspections that can be completed. Start adding to that and things get complicated.

 

But, I have no dog in the race now so it's easy to sit on the banks and watch the stream flow. Just wish the fishing was a bit better. Today, my stream is banked 37 degrees here at Bristol Motor Speedway with the big Late model show. The water really flows fast.


  • Richard Astacio likes this

#39
Danica Davison

Danica Davison

    Always the bridesmaid never the bride

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,478 posts
  • Location:Jacksonville Biatch
  • Region:Central Florida
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:10

I have only raced SM for one year so I have to tread lightly or I'll get labeled as a know-it-all millennial.

 

 

You millennials are just the worst.


John Davison
Autotechnik Racing / 5x Racing
2016 - Central Florida Region Champion
2017 - The People's Champion
2017 - President of DSFC
#itcouldbeyou

Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22

Everyone says we need less classes, why? What does it take away by having a lot of classes. If we combine classes in run groups where is the down side. Car counts at most events aren’t overbooked. So why push away a class. I agree if a class gets pitifully low participation then it should go regional only. But when you try and combine it doesn’t work. Most cars are built to thier specific rule set and when you change the rule set a lot can’t be undone. I was on the raw end of the stick going from DSR to P1, so I have lived the nightmare. And the consolidation of S2, DSR, CSR to p1/P2 has cost the club car count and members. We have seen the same fallout when we redid all of T and SSB/C. To top that off we added Bspec that wasn’t ready in numbers to become a national class. The worst thing you can do to a competitor is take his competitive car and turn it into a also ran.

Just think how this forum would explode if the NC and ND became part of SM. It’s all sounds great and dandy until it hits your class. Hell SM still has not gotten over adding the NB to SM.

I disagree, with the exception of about 5 people the darkside has prevailed and NB is the SM.


  • Danica Davison likes this
Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users