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#1
0100

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New to SM. Use to race formula cars, took about 4 years off and now I have the itch again.

Want to try SM this time around.

I weight 160lbs with gear.

Will be racing in the north east SCCA SM class.

Which car is the most competitive within the 2011 scca rules?

90-93 1.6L 2275 lbs with no restrictor. 10 lbs lighter than 2010

OR

94-97 1.8L 2365 lbs with 47mm restrictor. 10 lbs lighter and 2mm less restriction than 2010

#2
KentCarter

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You want either a 94 or a 99. The 1.6L is dead.
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#3
Bench Racer

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You want either a 94 or a 99. The 1.6L is dead.


Come on Drago get em for saying that. It's worse than the stuff I say about my car which is a 1.6. On the other hand if the guy is racing NASA all the 99 SCCA folks are bitching because the 1.6 is the car to have in NASA. :D
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#4
Jim Drago

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Come on Drago get em for saying that. It's worse than the stuff I say about my car which is a 1.6. On the other hand if the guy is racing NASA all the 99 SCCA folks are bitching because the 1.6 is the car to have in NASA. :D


You guys crack me up.
Neither organization is "far off" as all cars have won races under both rule sets, NASA or SCCA. If such relatively small changes( NASA VS SCCA rules) can make the "Car to have" in one organization and a "dog" in the other and vice versa. I would say the rules are pretty close. :rolleyes: Unless you think some magic number in the middle will make everyone happy and provide peace on earth. :blink: I wont hold my breath.

Maybe we all just bitch, whine and complain just a little too much and play the man drama card far more often then it needs to be played.

The simply answer is build the best car you can build, regardless of the year.

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#5
KentCarter

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Jim.... we are starting to see LSD failures on the older 1.6L cars. My LSD is coming out this week to find out why it's working more like a VLSD. I had wheelspin allll over Eagles Canyon. Probably worn plates... but could be more.

Without a decent replacement for the no-longer available Mazdaspeed LSD, the 1.6 is dead. Until a clear replacement is identified, no one can build a new 1.6NA. It's dead. Simple as that.

If my LSD turns out to be unrepairable, my SM becomes someone else's prod car project. Simple as that.
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#6
Cnj

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Which car is the most competitive within the 2011 scca rules?

90-93 1.6L 2275 lbs with no restrictor. 10 lbs lighter than 2010

OR

94-97 1.8L 2365 lbs with 47mm restrictor. 10 lbs lighter and 2mm less restriction than 2010
[/quote]

The cars are very close. With your weight and formula car background (comfort with a light car) I am guessing you would be comfortable and possibly fast in a 1.6. With that said the slight edge this year seems to be to the 1.8 but this forum will argue that for days. You never asked about the 99 which at this point has been presumed by many to be the car to have (although the facts are murky about this being definitive). I built a 99 before it became popular, primarily as I wanted a car that was not going to be 20 years old when I built it - which is the point that Kent is making.

If I were building for this year alone, I would probably build or buy a 94-97. If I were to build/buy a car I intended to keep for a few years, I would choose a 99 again based on youthfulness. The rules will change slightly from year to year and people will bitch vigorously that they have been screwed, but on the whole the changes are minor and different cars are competitive at different tracks.

Cnj
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#7
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Thanks guys for the info, much appreciated.

It seems crazy to me that the Mazdaspeed LSD is not available. Especially with the popularity of the class. Can you do a torsen swap on the 1.6 cars?

Could someone explain to me all the SM classes in the scca?

I see SM, SSM, SM2, and SM5...

#8
Philip Springer

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Jim.... we are starting to see LSD failures on the older 1.6L cars. My LSD is coming out this week to find out why it's working more like a VLSD. I had wheelspin allll over Eagles Canyon. Probably worn plates... but could be more.

Without a decent replacement for the no-longer available Mazdaspeed LSD, the 1.6 is dead. Until a clear replacement is identified, no one can build a new 1.6NA. It's dead. Simple as that.

If my LSD turns out to be unrepairable, my SM becomes someone else's prod car project. Simple as that.


There's always this option.
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#9
KentCarter

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There's always this option.


We have tested the Torsen swap. In fact, I bought a complete Torsen setup right after it became legal because it held the promise of being more reliable. The result: 1 to 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the clutch pack LSD.

Let's see... if you were building a SpecMiata today, your only options would be viscous or Torsen. Each will make you >1 second slower than your competitors. The 1.6L is still dead as an option for a new build and dying as a viable car period.
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#10
KentCarter

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Thanks guys for the info, much appreciated.

It seems crazy to me that the Mazdaspeed LSD is not available. Especially with the popularity of the class. Can you do a torsen swap on the 1.6 cars?

Could someone explain to me all the SM classes in the scca?

I see SM, SSM, SM2, and SM5...

Yes, the Torsen swap is legal (99+ to the earlier cars). See above.

SM = once a great class
SSM = a return to the basics where the driver mattered, not available everywhere
SM2 = wishful thinking
SM5 = the future, but it is 2 years or 5 years off?
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#11
Jim Drago

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We have tested the Torsen swap. In fact, I bought a complete Torsen setup right after it became legal because it held the promise of being more reliable. The result: 1 to 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the clutch pack LSD.

Let's see... if you were building a SpecMiata today, your only options would be viscous or Torsen. Each will make you >1 second slower than your competitors. The 1.6L is still dead as an option for a new build and dying as a viable car period.



Kent
Where did you test this? The old Nurburgring? :rolleyes:

SMAC/CRB have asked Mazda about this several times, the last time by me last week. We should have something shortly.
Jim

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#12
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Yes, the Torsen swap is legal (99+ to the earlier cars). See above.

SM = once a great class
SSM = a return to the basics where the driver mattered, not available everywhere
SM2 = wishful thinking
SM5 = the future, but it is 2 years or 5 years off?


No I am serious. SM, SSM, SM2, and SM5 are listed as classes in this months NHMS race.

I know what SM and SSM are, but legitimately confused about SM2 and SM5.

Is SM2 a second run group, for the large SM class?

What about SM5?

#13
KentCarter

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Kent
Where did you test this? The old Nurburgring? :rolleyes:

SMAC/CRB have asked Mazda about this several times, the last time by me last week. We should have something shortly.
Jim

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#14
KentCarter

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No I am serious. SM, SSM, SM2, and SM5 are listed as classes in this months NHMS race.

I know what SM and SSM are, but legitimately confused about SM2 and SM5.

Is SM2 a second run group, for the large SM class?

What about SM5?

SM5 is a new class for the MX-5 cars. A lower level of prep than the MX-5 cup cars, but similar.
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#15
Bruce Wilson

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Kent
Where did you test this? The old Nurburgring? :rolleyes:

SMAC/CRB have asked Mazda about this several times, the last time by me last week. We should have something shortly.
Jim


Good to hear Jim!

I had a diff tooth break last month and was very lucky to get it repaired without needing a new LSD. Like Kent, I won't be doing the torsen upgrade, so I'm hoping we can get a replacement option very soon! In a class where you'd give your first born to go a tenth faster, it is a big deal.

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#16
Cy Peake

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No I am serious. SM, SSM, SM2, and SM5 are listed as classes in this months NHMS race.


SM5 is 06+ cars. SM2 in the NER is 90-97 cars that are prepped/legal for SM. Basically SM2 is no 99s, but we'll be running in that race group with our 99s in the ITS class B) We just won't be competing with the SM2 cars for points.

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#17
davew

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I have a complete 1.6 with a Mazdacomp diff that I will sell for $650.00 This unit came with a package deal and I have not run it, so no promises. I opened it up and everything looks good.

I also have a Mazdacomp clutch pack rebuild kit. No idea what it's worth, so first reasonable offer.

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#18
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SM5 is a new class for the MX-5 cars. A lower level of prep than the MX-5 cup cars, but similar.



SM5 is 06+ cars. SM2 in the NER is 90-97 cars that are prepped/legal for SM. Basically SM2 is no 99s, but we'll be running in that race group with our 99s in the ITS class B) We just won't be competing with the SM2 cars for points.


Ok thanks guys, that clears things up. I was completely lost. lol

#19
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Bunch of noob questions.

What is the best fuel to run with these cars?

Where do you buy the restricor plates?

Are the restrictor plates available at the track to buy from scca?

Do we have required stickers we must run besides the SCCA, number, and class?

Are good magnetic numbers legal?

Thanks!

#20
Alex Bolanos

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Yes, the Torsen swap is legal (99+ to the earlier cars). See above.

SM = once a great class
SSM = a return to the basics where the driver mattered, not available everywhere
SM2 = wishful thinking
SM5 = the future, but it is 2 years or 5 years off?


Seems to me like you should look for a new class to run? May I suggest an arrive and drive type of deal like Skip Barber where you can't possibly complain about parity?

;)

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