16 replies to this topic

[Alberto]

Are there really any differences between the two brands from a user perspective?  

Do the "10" heat range pads commonly used in the fronts feel any different?\

Thanks.

[Danny Steyn]

Alberto

I have tried and used most of the compounds in both the Carbotech and G-Loc ranges. 

I suspect that the equivalent compounds are probably very similar so you cant go wrong with either brand

And I have tested and used multiple compounds in Hawk, Cobalt and several other brands

I suggest you do a LOT of testing to find the compounds that work for you, based on your desire for initial bite, pedal pressure, brake release and overall pedal feel

Personally I love my G-Loc brakes, love their feel and I LOVE their stopping power, and they allow me go really late and really deep, and yet still have the pedal feel that allows me to modulate to avoid lock up. Plus they give excellent feel for smooth brake release. 

[OrangeCrush86]

I've used both and I've only noticed two things.

 

1. G-Loc offers a discount to SCCA members. I think this makes G-Loc slightly cheaper.

2. G-Loc has messed up one order of mine. I ordered prebed and they sent regulars. I never had any mistakes from Carbotech. Not a big deal, but it was a little annoying because I didn't have time to exchange them before the race weekend.

 

I will probably go G-Loc this year just because of the 10% discount. I couldn't notice a difference between the 10 and 12 compounds I have tried, but I also wasn't really in a testing environment.

[Alberto]

Thanks for the input.  I assumed they would feel and perform the same or at least similarly.

 

I had been using Hawk DTC 60/60 and 60/30 for a good long time.  I loved the more aggressive bite of the 60s compared to the Carbotech 10s up front.  However, like Danny, I also observed that the Carbotechs release more easily and feel more controllable in general which makes it easier (for me anyway) to trail brake and in general modulate the brake more easily while passing.  

 

I'm tempted to try G-Loc b/c they are the shiny, new-ish brand but I'm struggling with the "if it ain't broke" theory

 

I'd like to try other brands but testing gets expensive...

[Danny Steyn]

IMHO, Carbotech 10's upfront are not going to stop you fast enough - very little initial bite. I would recommend stepping up to a MUCH MORE aggressive compound, but the more aggressive the compound, the more pedal feel you will need to modulate pressure, or risk lock up. All depends how deep you want to brake

[Steve Scheifler]

Danny, I can recommend some good leg exercises if you like.

The ultimate limit is of course the tire and most any popular pad will allow you to lock them up even at high speed. Clearly Danny prefers to use less pedal pressure and still have it decelerate abruptly and hard, which is probably good if you can develop the feel necessary for true threshold braking. It’s also a lot less work in an enduro!

[chris haldeman]

Alberto,
I assume you are still in a 1.6 car? If so not to go against Danny but the front pad range for your car would be either a 10 or 12 in g loc

[Tyler Kicera]

Alberto - I've been using Carotech's since I started running SM in 2012.  They've always taken care of me, been responsive and helpful when I have questions or concerns.  I exclusively used the XP10's up front until last year when I tried the XP12's at Road America at their recommendation and just ran the 12's again this past weekend at RAT.  They have a little more initial bite than the 10's, but if you're good with your feet and feeling the pedal, I think you can do well with either.    

[Alberto]

Thanks for mentioning the bite, fellas.  I had meant to try 12s up front as 10s don't feel like they bite hard enough IMO.  I think the old recommendation of 10f/8r were established back when we were all still running RA1s if I remember a conversation I had with the good people at Carbotech a couple of years ago....  With the added grip of slicks, the 12s might be a better option but I suppose that will be a driver preference thing.

 

For those of you running 12s up front, do you run 8s in the rear or 10s?

 

Steve, post up your leg exercise videos   Switching from Hawk DTC60s to Carbotech 10/8, the first thing you notice is the need to really work the brake pedal harder.  Takes a while to get used to.

 

And, yes, I still race a 1.6!

[OrangeCrush86]

I have run the 10/8 and 12/10 combos on my 1.6 and honestly I don't think I could tell them apart if they were swapped between weekends. If I did a pad change mid day, maybe.

 

We will see how this year goes with the 12/10 after redoing all four calipers and brake lines. I might go the Danny Steyn route and keep going higher until it's actually too much bite so I have a better sense of the compound scale.

[chris haldeman]

Danny should tell the story about how and why he runs what he runs. :-)

[chris haldeman]

Personal car I run G-loc 18 front and vary the rear compound based on track. I trail brake a shit ton and in some cases am as low as 6 on the rear or as high as 12

[Danny Steyn]

Alberto, brake pedal feel is very personal. I have always like to brake late and deep, and have learned to modulate the pedal release for trail braking. I would consider myself to be decent under brakes, maybe better than average, and I run very aggressive compounds in order to do that, but I do a lot of sim work to train both my fee for effective pedal release.

 

The one problem that I used to encounter with the brake compounds i use is that I had to always change out the brake pads if it ever went to rain or damp conditions. However as I have spent more time on the sim, I now can run with the very aggressive compounds in the wet without locking up, so I encourage you to put the work in

[Steve Scheifler]

Danny, what pedals do you use that adequately simulate the progressive rate and feel? I have tried two generations of Fanatec but have not installed an upgrade to the later one.

[Danny Steyn]

Steve - I am just using the standard Logitech G27 controls - yes you can learn to brake effectively with the cheap-ass sim controls. I am sure the fancy stuff works better, but I am quite content with what I have for now.

 

I am not measuring myself on the sim against anyone else as I don't actually compete in any races on iRacing. I just do testing and do thousands of repetitions of the most important corners at the track that I am going to. So for instance T7 and T10A at Road Atlanta this past week. I try different entry lines, different braking approaches, make car setup changes, go into the corner, then check my exit speed at an on-track reference marker so I know how well I got to WOT.

 

I then brake, turn the car around and drive the wrong way on the track and start the corner all over again. That way I can get thousands of T7 exits in several iRacing sessions.

[Ron Alan]

Thanks for mentioning the bite, fellas.  I had meant to try 12s up front as 10s don't feel like they bite hard enough IMO.  I think the old recommendation of 10f/8r were established back when we were all still running RA1s if I remember a conversation I had with the good people at Carbotech a couple of years ago....  With the added grip of slicks, the 12s might be a better option but I suppose that will be a driver preference thing.

 

For those of you running 12s up front, do you run 8s in the rear or 10s?

 

Steve, post up your leg exercise videos   Switching from Hawk DTC60s to Carbotech 10/8, the first thing you notice is the need to really work the brake pedal harder.  Takes a while to get used to.

 

And, yes, I still race a 1.6!

One thing worth mentioning that hasn't come up in this thread(most are aware but for some newbies)...

 

Family members who were part of Carbotec left and formed G-Loc. According to Danny Puskar, principle at G-Loc, both companies products are essentially the same. Things may have changed now(or new products)since I had that conversation...

 

BUT...G-Loc is there for the racers...they are putting up contingencies, offering discounts, supporting at the track...basically what they can do to support the racing community! For this reason...I for one support them...and I like their products! We have choices!

 

Alberto...I may be wrong put I have always been under the impression the Hawk DTC pads were developed to be an alternative to the high bite/rotor eating/lock up special Hawk blues and similar pads. DTC have less initial bite and better modulation is my understanding...similar to the 12's, 10's 8's

 

To expand on Steve's comment for the newbies...braking limit is tire grip! Since we cant smash on the brake(regardless of pad)with no ABS...the ability to modulate pedal pressure becomes a muscle memory that is learned. Your big leg muscles dont have the ability to control themselves like for example your fingers. So every driver needs to find what works for them...pedal pressure(how much leg you need)is essentially the difference in pads(I'm simplifying). All pads can find threshold/lock up! How much muscle control you have to quickly get pads to release is next. It becomes what works for you...then you can think about other factors...brake fad, longevity(budget), rotor wear(budget), pad release(at lockup), price(budget)!

 

Something we learned early on...additional money spent on brake pads far out weighs destroyed tires(lock ups)!

[Alberto]

Alberto...I may be wrong put I have always been under the impression the Hawk DTC pads were developed to be an alternative to the high bite/rotor eating/lock up special Hawk blues and similar pads. DTC have less initial bite and better modulation is my understanding...similar to the 12's, 10's 8's

 

 

Agreed that the DTCs do have less initial bite than the Blues and better modulation and rotor wear.  I personally can't compare to the Carbotech or G-Loc 12/10 but you might be right.  Comparing the DTC 60/30 to Carbotech 10/8, the modulation works better for me personally with the Carbotechs. 

I loved the Hawk DTCs for years but my driving style and needs have changed over the years and the Carbotechs now fit my style better.