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#1
SaulSpeedwell

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Racecar Engineering Vol 9 (Year: 1999) No 4 - Ortiz on Dynamic Load Transfer

Page 44: "The basic rule is that the stiffer end gets the greater load transfer. Load transfer at the softer end is correspondingly reduced. This increases cornering power at the softer end and reduces cornering power at the stiffer end."

Page 48: "If we have a tight-on-slick condition, we can improve the car by creating a setup that produces less wedge when cornering forces are modest, with a greater wedge gain as cornering force increases. To obtain this, we would decrease static wedge, and make overall roll resistance distribution more front-stiff.

For a loose-on-slick car, we would do the opposite: more static wedge, with a more rear-stiff roll distribution"



 


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#2
Nathan Pring

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Racecar Engineering Vol 9 (Year: 1999) No 4 - Ortiz on Dynamic Load Transfer

Page 44: "The basic rule is that the stiffer end gets the greater load transfer. Load transfer at the softer end is correspondingly reduced. This increases cornering power at the softer end and reduces cornering power at the stiffer end."

Page 48: "If we have a tight-on-slick condition, we can improve the car by creating a setup that produces less wedge when cornering forces are modest, with a greater wedge gain as cornering force increases. To obtain this, we would decrease static wedge, and make overall roll resistance distribution more front-stiff.

For a loose-on-slick car, we would do the opposite: more static wedge, with a more rear-stiff roll distribution"



 

 

Great info Saul, can you tell me how that translates to adjustments in a Miata for the noobs like me?



#3
William Keeling

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at least MO is not slick in the rain :)


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#4
JRHille

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What is tight on slick and loose on slick 


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#5
Tom Hampton

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What is tight on slick and loose on slick


My interpretation has been, "the car is tight/loose in low grip conditions" but the opposite handling condition in high-grip conditions.  The idea being to set the static wedge for the rain, and tune the car with the bars to add/remove dynamic wedge (more roll = more bar (de)wedge) for the higher grip conditions. 


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#6
Steve Scheifler

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I confess, I’m struggling with the idea that everything is reversed when wet/slick. It is common to slow down weight transfer by disconnecting the bars but it has always been my belief and experience that if only the rear were dropped then the car would be more inclined to push in the wet, which many people prefer over being loose. But the above seems to state just the opposite, although in combination with altering static wedge. We don’t generally run all that much wedge anyway and I’ve never changed it specifically for wet conditions. Is Mr. Ortiz talking more about oval track cars? I’ve been learning just a little about their suspensions and the multitude of adjustments that need to be mastered and tweaked during a weekend. Yikes!
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#7
LarryKing

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Tight you go head first into the barriers, loose you back it in.
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#8
Steve Scheifler

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Tight you go head first into the barriers, loose you back it in.


Yes of course, but what question are you answering? From JRHille? I think Tom covered that, which was more about “slick” in conjunction with tight/loose.
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#9
Tom Hampton

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I confess, I’m struggling with the idea that everything is reversed when wet/slick.


Yes, I agree. But maybe it's better to think in terms of difference. It doesn't really have to be reversed so much as less loose or more tight in different grip situations. In that case, perhaps with less weight transfer (and total load) and suspension compression there is a change in handling as a result of less camber gain on one end or the other.

Also, the rain line is often more sharp following the typical inside the dry line entry, cross over, turn sharp, cross over type of line. I suppose that could result in a different handling dynamic versus the typical dry line.

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#10
Steve Scheifler

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I’m not really following that first part Tom. He SEEMS to be very clear that wet/slick is opposite of dry with respect to front/rear roll stiffness. And I don’t think the wet line factors into his assessment at all.

As for weight transfer, it’s less mostly because speeds and loads are less, but it is slower because roll stiffness is decreased. Is that not correct? In fact, thanks to the less abrupt transfer of weight you may achieve higher sustained lateral Gs in the wet with the bars off, which means you actually end up with greater ultimate weight transfer than with them attached (because you go faster). Am I mistaken on any of that?
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#11
Danny Steyn

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Personally we/I, do not adjust for rain, it might just dry up and we/I would prefer to be back to what we/I know in the dry, so we/I race the rain with the dry setup. But of course YMMV, just sayin in  case anyone is interested


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#12
Danny Steyn

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Good luck to all at MO - wish we could have been there to join in the fun, but have to earn some $$$ to fund this very addictive habit!!!!


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#13
Steve Scheifler

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Saul you could get a job as a meteorologist in St Louis. ;)

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#14
Michael Novak

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Way to go Jim on the two wins this weekend...   Looks like the old guys rule in 2019!!!!!


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#15
Steve Scheifler

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The young guys are all at Gingerman with Gridlife.
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#16
Bench Racer

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Why is provisional shown for Sunday???


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#17
Jim Drago

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Why is provisional shown for Sunday???

Was some passing under yellow reported, no sure if they took any action or not. It was not for 1-2, it was 3-6 I believe

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#18
Bench Racer

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Now that were assured, great job for a guy who hates Mud Ohio (or does it hate you) and to the other's who didn't beat the yellow flag. 


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#19
38bfast

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There was a protest for leaving racing room on Saturday as well, but was not deemed well founded. 

 

There was a lot of Metal to metal this weekend. Nothing really serious but high amount of it. All seemed to be "Leaning" Or "you get 1 car and a inch" or "it was my turn" or "defending" 


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#20
Ron Alan

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There was a protest for leaving racing room on Saturday as well, but was not deemed well founded. 

 

There was a lot of Metal to metal this weekend. Nothing really serious but high amount of it. All seemed to be "Leaning" Or "you get 1 car and a inch" or "it was my turn" or "defending" 

The more and more I attend SCCA and NASA events...the more I appreciate the current level of oversight that occurs in my region with NASA. I had 2 customers this weekend at our SCCA regional at Laguna Seca. So I watched every SM and group 5(alphabet soup)race. The amount of contact was staggering...at least a dozen cars(34 entries I think) with significant damage...75% were avoidable/idiotic driving. The few that were self induced learned there own lessons I'm sure. Sometimes we(SM group) just have bad weekends...the problem local is this has happened EVERY weekend. NOBODY in SCCA oversee's this large group or has any knowledge of the same guys who are constantly creating problems! Then its he said she said with half the drivers not running video..."racing incident" does no one any favors!


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