43 replies to this topic

[callumhay]

i mean lets talk about actual car costs.

what does it take to win?

talent: obviously. this is expensive too, it means track time, instruction, experience etc etc. but its not a car cost.

setup: the car needs to be setup for the event near ideally. this is something a regional racer probably isnt changing per event or per track. but likly needs to be. the changes are relatively cheap/minor, the real wealth here you buy with a prep shopped car, is the experience and testing that found the settings in the first place. i put setup knowledge and costs in another column to the car itselfs car cost.

labor: this is not a "cost" to the guy doing it in his garage for himself, but is a large percent of the cost the prep shop is doing to build/rebuild/maintain the car.

compared to the parts on the car itself .... car obviously needs to run cool, have a powerful engine, good diff, good shocks, good tires, brakes etc etc .... but most of these parts are pretty standard. unless someone is cheating, the set of penskes i buy and run, are within the noise as the ones ESR bolts to there cars, right?

i would personally like to hear the breakdown between labor, and parts THAT ACTUALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT AUTOMOTIVE ADVANTAGE, costs in a 35k prep shop build, and your joe-shmo, i put in a pro motor myself, dyno it from time to time, and do most of my own work in my garage. joe shmo has the same shocks, diff, brakes, and a pro motor, and the car makes weight, is corner balanced once a season, alignment played with from time to time etc

id be curious what the breakdown is in that cost. and what the difference in speed is. basically: what does blueprinting the trans, diff, etc and dyno tuning the shit out of the car really get you? im sure some of the shops can answer this but likely dont want to.

i mean lets talk about actual car costs. what does it take to win?talent: obviously. this is expensive too, it means track time, instruction, experience etc etc. but its not a car cost. setup: the car needs to be setup for the event near ideally. this is something a regional racer probably isnt changing per event or per track. but likly needs to be. the changes are relatively cheap/minor, the real wealth here you buy with a prep shopped car, is the experience and testing that found the settings in the first place. i put setup knowledge and costs in another column to the car itselfs car cost.labor: this is not a "cost" to the guy doing it in his garage for himself, but is a large percent of the cost the prep shop is doing to build/rebuild/maintain the car.  compared to the parts on the car itself .... car obviously needs to run cool, have a powerful engine, good diff, good shocks, good tires, brakes etc etc .... but most of these parts are pretty standard. unless someone is cheating, the set of penskes i buy and run, are within the noise as the ones ESR bolts to there cars, right? i would personally like to hear the breakdown between labor, and parts THAT ACTUALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT AUTOMOTIVE ADVANTAGE, costs in a 35k prep shop build, and your joe-shmo, i put in a pro motor myself, dyno it from time to time, and do most of my own work in my garage. joe shmo has the same shocks, diff, brakes, and a pro motor, and the car makes weight, is corner balanced once a season, alignment played with from time to time etcid be curious what the breakdown is in that cost. and what the difference in speed is. basically: what does blueprinting the trans, diff, etc and dyno tuning the shit out of the car really get you? im sure some of the shops can answer this but likely dont want to.

[callumhay]

Apologies for ballsing up the multiquote above
My 2 cents ..it cost me around 21k to do a very decent 1999 Miata build about 3 years ago. That's purchase of donor car, cage work ( professionally done at an SM shop), complete strip of car leaving wiring and fuel lines. I replaced everything I could with new Mazda parts. Including in process the belts, steering wheel, seat etc etc. I rebuilt the motor, paid for it to be over bored and only cleaned the head..replacing valves as needed. No pro work on diff, trans, head etc

Took me a year and a half in my spare time. I did it for fun and purely to say that I could and did..I continue to have fun with the car even though my lap times suck...

A30-40 k car is reasonable imo when paying for the expertise. That being said I think it's fairly obvious that as competitive as SM is, that money will flow to where and what and who seems to give you the best chance of winning, if winning is what you want.

The interest in the 1.8 NA Miata that's been shown is interesting as there is at least one other driver in FL who has been wheeling an NA 1.8 to victory. .. I think there is more coming from that car and Danny Steyn for sure showed that at Daytona

Money and racing should pretty much be beside one another in the dictionary. With "see talent" as the final ingredient for success.

Unless you have natural talent I would bet it is impossible to buy a top tier car and win at a majors level. The fast guys at the front have spent umpteen thousands of dollars and hrs in developing their skills...and probably had some natural talent to start with. The question should also be not only how much do I need to spend on a car but also how much do I need to spend on me. ?? Answering the latter question probably would make any "expensive" car look cheap...again though we are talking about winning...

Anyway in a long winded way I would say hard costs if you want to replace just about everything aswell as race prep it would easily be 20-22k excluding labor . Maybe or probably even more, but for sure I kept every receipt and it mounts up quickly.

Cal

[Jim Drago]

i mean lets talk about actual car costs. 

what does it take to win?

talent: obviously. this is expensive too, it means track time, instruction, experience etc etc. but its not a car cost. 

setup: the car needs to be setup for the event near ideally. this is something a regional racer probably isnt changing per event or per track. but likly needs to be. the changes are relatively cheap/minor, the real wealth here you buy with a prep shopped car, is the experience and testing that found the settings in the first place. i put setup knowledge and costs in another column to the car itselfs car cost.

labor: this is not a "cost" to the guy doing it in his garage for himself, but is a large percent of the cost the prep shop is doing to build/rebuild/maintain the car. 
 
compared to the parts on the car itself .... car obviously needs to run cool, have a powerful engine, good diff, good shocks, good tires, brakes etc etc .... but most of these parts are pretty standard. unless someone is cheating, the set of penskes i buy and run, are within the noise as the ones ESR bolts to there cars, right? 

i would personally like to hear the breakdown between labor, and parts THAT ACTUALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT AUTOMOTIVE ADVANTAGE, costs in a 35k prep shop build, and your joe-shmo, i put in a pro motor myself, dyno it from time to time, and do most of my own work in my garage. joe shmo has the same shocks, diff, brakes, and a pro motor, and the car makes weight, is corner balanced once a season, alignment played with from time to time etc

id be curious what the breakdown is in that cost. and what the difference in speed is. basically: what does blueprinting the trans, diff, etc and dyno tuning the shit out of the car really get you? im sure some of the shops can answer this but likely dont want to.

All good points!

I used to do all my work and car prep myself in my garage at home..
the better I got, the more I learned .. the more time it started to take. So much time now that I could not do it alone anymore, I could, but I would likely quit. I think we roughly spend about 6 hrs on the car for every hour on track.. then throw in th time towing to events... it can get overwhelming.

Some of the best drivers I have competed against over the years have been independents, most tire because of all the time to do it right. When I started I think 95% were independents. I think people think there is far more secrets and boo doo in the prep shop side. Lots of experience, lots of hours doing tedious tasks in order to insure the car is ready every time it’s on track. Track time is key.. if the car is not right for each session, you are losing.


As far as driving.. not sure what the words are.. but calming yourself in the car is paramount. I used to be nervous, excited etc.. now my mind set is it’s just another race. I believe with that time and experience in the car, you get yourself to a calmer place and you make much better decisions.

[gerglmuff2]

All good points!

I used to do all my work and car prep myself in my garage at home..
the better I got, the more I learned .. the more time it started to take. So much time now that I could not do it alone anymore, I could, but I would likely quit. I think we roughly spend about 6 hrs on the car for every hour on track.. then throw in th time towing to events... it can get overwhelming.

Some of the best drivers I have competed against over the years have been independents, most tire because of all the time to do it right. When I started I think 95% were independents. I think people think there is far more secrets and boo doo in the prep shop side. Lots of experience, lots of hours doing tedious tasks in order to insure the car is ready every time it’s on track. Track time is key.. if the car is not right for each session, you are losing.


As far as driving.. not sure what the words are.. but calming yourself in the car is paramount. I used to be nervous, excited etc.. now my mind set is it’s just another race. I believe with that time and experience in the car, you get yourself to a calmer place and you make much better decisions.

 

thanks for this response

6 hours of prep per 1 hour of track ....