Jump to content

Photo

New SEDiv SCCA Class - Spec Miata Toyo

- - - - - Toyo Hoosier

  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#81
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,816 posts

I assumed that was me.. When in doubt, it is either me, you or Scheifller :)


Yeah, I’m OK with that I guess but I’m lost. Here’s this long coherent post which I assume was copy-paste from somewhere, then bang, we’re back to the Bench we know and love but don’t understand. Good to know he’s found a new question to obsess over though. :)
  • Cnj and Jim Drago like this
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#82
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Late to the shave party!(dont let your mind wander)

 

Northern California NASA and SCCA each averaged about 40 SM cars per event this year. NASA obviously runs RR and the SCCA region is about 80-90% on RR. I was at every event for both except the few that fell on the same weekend. I can honestly say I never heard of 1 person running shaved tires in either organization. In fact...I heard way more stories about drivers feeling just as competitive on 12 cycle tires as they did on stickers. 

No doubt many can argue the theoretical difference between the benefits of a 2/32 shaved tire vs a full tread...but I think in terms of actual performance, 95% couldn't pick up any difference in their data all things being equal(which of course they never are!)The best of the best will have a preference but for the rest...Mount those bitches and run them till they cord(or close)! Your budget will love you! 


  • Alberto and John Wilding like this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#83
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,659 posts

Ron, what do the 10-20% run at SCCA regionals? Do people show up on sticker Hoosiers and kill the love?


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#84
Nathan Pring

Nathan Pring

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts
  • Location:Pittsboro, NC
  • Region:NCR
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:85

I'll be running the Toyos for sure. I've been running them anyway for all the practice sessions to offset the cost of Hoosiers since they last twice as long, and I definitely wont be shaving them!


  • Danica Davison likes this

2019 SeDIV SMSE Champion


#85
Tom Sager

Tom Sager

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts
  • Location:Chicago Suburbs
  • Region:Central
  • Car Year:1996
  • Car Number:94

Well, with the West coast and Southeast in SCCA adopting widespread use of Toyo's and some of the top dogs in our class also wanting tire rule/choice revisions, it's pretty clear we need a change that will help the wallet. 


  • Jim Drago and Danica Davison like this
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#86
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

 

No doubt many can argue the theoretical difference between the benefits of a 2/32 shaved tire vs a full tread...but I think in terms of actual performance, 95% couldn't pick up any difference in their data all things being equal(which of course they never are!)The best of the best will have a preference but for the rest...Mount those bitches and run them till they cord(or close)! Your budget will love you! 

 

I would agree with that... But that is no different than 2-3 hp. You will run the same lap time and hard to see in data.. but everyone wants the 2-3 :(   It all depends on competition level and size of the and stature of the event. Small event no shaving ... championship event shaving comes in.   It is a sliding scale. 


  • Ron Alan likes this

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#87
FTodaro

FTodaro

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,084 posts
  • Location:Columbus Ohio
  • Region:Great Lakes
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:35

If we could only get Toyo to  cut down the mold on the RR make the tire a 3/16th tire you would not need to shave it. The current tire is to fact, tall and heavy.


Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
 

Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#88
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

If we could only get Toyo to  cut down the mold on the RR make the tire a 3/16th tire you would not need to shave it. The current tire is to fact, tall and heavy.

It is 3/16 :) 6/32 :)

You mean 3/32, dam attorneys never could do fractions.. just  1/3 or 40% :)

 

However I agree, a 3/32 molded RR would be an awesome tire. Probably still a 15-25  session tire. Very little to no advantage to shave it, just run it down some


  • Ron Alan and lillyweld like this

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#89
Parity

Parity

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts
  • Location:Pennsylvania
  • Region:North East
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:51

I think it speaks volumes that increasingly folks are foregoing points in SM to run SMT so I really doubt most regional guys are going to shave tires. If majors guys want to shave, go at it. We still will benefit at the regional level and even if us Larry's run the occasional Majors we can always follow suit if we think it would help.


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#90
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Ron, what do the 10-20% run at SCCA regionals? Do people show up on sticker Hoosiers and kill the love?

SFR SCCA has 3 classes...

 

SSM(sealed)...RR and RA1

SMT(Toyo)...RR and RA1

SM...SM7...this class is a hold over from the first change to Hoosiers and then the region went back to Toyo(by demand). But there were a few that demanded the region offer the ability to run the Hoosiers to burn up stock. Well, the stock never ended because these few people found that Hoosier gave away 3 tires per race at a regional weekend! So a very small few have kept the SM class alive because they are running free tires! And the of course when a Major or HST comes around they are ready!

 

Unfortunately Toyo isn't partnered with SCCA so there is no contingency. 

 

Our NASA regionals on the other hand...Toyo pays a total of $1075 PER RACE(2 races per weekend) to 10 drivers in each race! $2150 per weekend! This is given in "Toyo bucks" which can be redeemed toward your next tire purchase(for those who haven't heard of this). Of course this is paid in every NASA region across the country(BTW...those amounts are paid with 20+cars in a race)


Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#91
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

It is 3/16 :) 6/32 :)

You mean 3/32, dam attorneys never could do fractions.. just  1/3 or 40% :)

 

However I agree, a 3/32 molded RR would be an awesome tire. Probably still a 15-25  session tire. Very little to no advantage to shave it, just run it down some

I too agree! But to repeat, so few can actually quantify the difference...the stock thickness of 4/32 is just a win win IMO!

 

God knows the SM7 is wider than the Toyo...but it is certainly lighter...maybe 1 or 2 lbs? I'd be curious to understand why? 

 

Also...just a bit of info for those who haven't run these tires or are just starting. Tire wear(cycles)is a function of the driver! Faster the driver...less cycles! I have seen a RR cord in 12 cycles...top driver, tire on same corner start to finish(rear)!

But on that corded run(other 3 tires were getting close)...he still ran within .5 seconds of his best times(It was a good morning!)...point being..."Heat Cycling" out is very minimal from everything I've seen. Ever heard of someone cording a Hoosier?? :)


Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#92
Caveman-kwebb99

Caveman-kwebb99

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • Location:World Wide
  • Region:Great lakes
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:99

SFR SCCA has 3 classes...

SSM(sealed)...RR and RA1
SMT(Toyo)...RR and RA1
SM...SM7...this class is a hold over from the first change to Hoosiers and then the region went back to Toyo(by demand). But there were a few that demanded the region offer the ability to run the Hoosiers to burn up stock. Well, the stock never ended because these few people found that Hoosier gave away 3 tires per race at a regional weekend! So a very small few have kept the SM class alive because they are running free tires! And the of course when a Major or HST comes around they are ready!

Unfortunately Toyo isn't partnered with SCCA so there is no contingency.

Our NASA regionals on the other hand...Toyo pays a total of $1075 PER RACE(2 races per weekend) to 10 drivers in each race! $2150 per weekend! This is given in "Toyo bucks" which can be redeemed toward your next tire purchase(for those who haven't heard of this). Of course this is paid in every NASA region across the country(BTW...those amounts are paid with 20+cars in a race)


Unfortunately inany regions that is a reward for racing in a group of thunder roadsters, Honda challenge, and who knows what other classes...

It's nice to get the contingency but it's nicer to race an all sm race.

Texas has that figured out thanks to Will good contingency and a sm only race group. Can't say that for every region though.

K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)

Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup

2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio

2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!

2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America

2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest

My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
 

 

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Majors Winner - Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#93
Caveman-kwebb99

Caveman-kwebb99

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • Location:World Wide
  • Region:Great lakes
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:99

I too agree! But to repeat, so few can actually quantify the difference...the stock thickness of 4/32 is just a win win IMO!

God knows the SM7 is wider than the Toyo...but it is certainly lighter...maybe 1 or 2 lbs? I'd be curious to understand why?

Also...just a bit of info for those who haven't run these tires or are just starting. Tire wear(cycles)is a function of the driver! Faster the driver...less cycles! I have seen a RR cord in 12 cycles...top driver, tire on same corner start to finish(rear)!
But on that corded run(other 3 tires were getting close)...he still ran within .5 seconds of his best times(It was a good morning!)...point being..."Heat Cycling" out is very minimal from everything I've seen. Ever heard of someone cording a Hoosier?? :)


In the good old days when mid Ohio liked old tires I corded some sm6 Hoosiers.

K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)

Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup

2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio

2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!

2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America

2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest

My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
 

 

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Majors Winner - Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#94
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

Unfortunately inany regions that is a reward for racing in a group of thunder roadsters, Honda challenge, and who knows what other classes...

It's nice to get the contingency but it's nicer to race an all sm race.

Texas has that figured out thanks to Will good contingency and a sm only race group. Can't say that for every region though.

Not a matter of figuring out...a matter of numbers! And then a matter of how many other groups that region is running and can it pay for everything and still make a profit! Dont get me wrong...I'm with you on selfishly thinking SM rules and should have its own run group period! :)

We run with spec E30 in Norcal and frankly it only bugged me for about 2 events! Now I dont even notice and actually enjoy when the lead pack comes up on a slow E30 or god forbid a really slow SM :( It just adds a real race dimension that forces drivers to think! Pro endurance racing with all the mixed classes is fascinating to watch! Maybe why I'm drawn to the 25HR each year...god help me!


Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#95
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

It just adds a real race dimension that forces drivers to think! Pro endurance racing with all the mixed classes is fascinating to watch! Maybe why I'm drawn to the 25HR each year...god help me!

Mr. Alan, WOW, great start for the weekend :yep: , WE concisely agree on something (as will Steve & Jim, me thinks) which is normally part of road racing, except of course within the SCCA. The key to multi class racing is RACECRAFT. I really hate to say it, the SCCA Production car classes each want their own race group, GTL, H, F, E & other than now & then at the Runoffs the Prod races are single file prades. :rotfl:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#96
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

Mr. Alan, WOW, great start for the weekend :yep: , WE concisely agree on something (as will Steve & Jim, me thinks) which is normally part of road racing, except of course within the SCCA. The key to multi class racing is RACECRAFT. I really hate to say it, the SCCA Production car classes each want their own race group, GTL, H, F, E & other than now & then at the Runoffs the Prod races are single file prades.  :rotfl:

I like the strategy on pit stops, fuel economy ,drivers and all that, but as far as o track, not so much. Many should not even be on the track.  Slow is not the problem.. slow, unaware and completely unpredictable is a problem.  You can think for days, but if people are new and unpredictable, it doesn't matter. 


  • joe varble likes this

East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#97
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

slow, unaware and completely unpredictable is a problem.  You can think for days, but if people are new and unpredictable, it doesn't matter. 

:yep:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#98
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

I like the strategy on pit stops, fuel economy ,drivers and all that, but as far as o track, not so much. Many should not even be on the track.  Slow is not the problem.. slow, unaware and completely unpredictable is a problem.  You can think for days, but if people are new and unpredictable, it doesn't matter. 

Agree with this 100% when it comes to unaware and unpredictable. But I would distinguish my feeling between "Pro" races and "amateur". There should be a level of confidence a "gentleman" driver in a pro series should have...no matter how much money he/she brings in! In amateur racing frankly there has to be a little more acceptance of the unaware/unpredictable driver...everyone starts somewhere! In a race like the 25HR where there really is all levels of skill and knowledge...ironically it is often the good but very impatient drivers in fast cars the cause the most problems!

That said...there is a limit when all racing orgs need to step in and say no more until there is improvement. Our last regional race we had an E30 BMW that was lapped twice by most of the field in a 25 minute race  :no: It will be awhile before he is back on grid. 


  • Jim Drago likes this

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#99
MazdaSteve

MazdaSteve

    Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Location:Cherryville, NC
  • Region:CCR
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:04

Toyo Spec Tire for MX-5 Cup:

 

https://racer.com/20...mx-5-challenge/


Seneca Motorsports





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Toyo, Hoosier

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users