15 replies to this topic

[bmarshall1]

OK - it's my semi annual flurry of questions in my post race quest to be faster.  Remember, I get paid by the posts so let's get on it!

 

Does anyone mark their tires to see how for on the edges you are.  I am trying to figure out if there is any usefulness to marking; is it better to just look at the wear patterns, or simply drive and give the car what it needs  alignment wise.

[Jim Drago]

I used too, havent done it in years, like 5-10

[Alberto]

I don't mark them but I do look at them.  Especially the blue-ish heat ring that I used to see on the outside shoulder when running less camber.  That has mostly gone away after I increased how much negative camber I ran.  

[bmarshall1]

I don't mark them but I do look at them.  Especially the blue-ish heat ring that I used to see on the outside shoulder when running less camber.  That has mostly gone away after I increased how much negative camber I ran.  

Hmmmm - I'll have to look after my next race.

[nballard76]

The Toyos have marks showing where the edge of the contact patch is supposed to be.  They are small triangles pointing in towards the center of the tread spaced along the outside of the sldewall logo area.  You can see two in this photo -http://www.bimmerworld.com/Toyo_RR.jpg

[bmarshall1]

The Toyos have marks showing where the edge of the contact patch is supposed to be.  They are small triangles pointing in towards the center of the tread spaced along the outside of the sldewall logo area.  You can see two in this photo -http://www.bimmerworld.com/Toyo_RR.jpg

I have seen those before but never knew what they were all about.  So is it as easy as adjusting pressure/camber to hit the tip of the triangle?

[nballard76]

I have seen those before but never knew what they were all about.  So is it as easy as adjusting pressure/camber to hit the tip of the triangle?

That's what I've been told.  I try to come off hot at 31.5 to 32 psi and the edge of the contact patch is generally right at those marks.

 

Now, if it were only that easy!  ;-)

[bmarshall1]

I don't mark them but I do look at them.  Especially the blue-ish heat ring that I used to see on the outside shoulder when running less camber.  That has mostly gone away after I increased how much negative camber I ran.  

Alberto - What exactly does the blue ring mean? I searched but could not find an answer.  Some on the internet said it's too much heat, some say end of tire life, some say it does not mean anything.  My 20+ heat cycled Toyos had it, my new 8 cycle Toyos do not and I know the new ones were run much harder.

The Toyos have marks showing where the edge of the contact patch is supposed to be.  They are small triangles pointing in towards the center of the tread spaced along the outside of the sldewall logo area.  You can see two in this photo -http://www.bimmerworld.com/Toyo_RR.jpg

nballard - I looked at mine and the outside edge had very light scuffing about 1/16 from the tip (perhaps simply from running over the rumble strips), the orangepeel and actual 'use' of the tire is a little over 1/8 from the triangle tip,  add about 1/16 to those measurements for the inside triangles.

[bmarshall1]

That's what I've been told.  I try to come off hot at 31.5 to 32 psi and the edge of the contact patch is generally right at those marks.

 

Now, if it were only that easy!  ;-)

I try to come off around 33/34, maybe I'll give the tire some markings, air down a pound or two for the next race and see what happens.

[ChrisA]

The Toyos have marks showing where the edge of the contact patch is supposed to be.  They are small triangles pointing in towards the center of the tread spaced along the outside of the sldewall logo area.  You can see two in this photo -http://www.bimmerworld.com/Toyo_RR.jpg

This is complete BS. The triangles/arrows on tires (Michelin uses a little Michelin-man) are indicators for where the tire tread depth measurement bars are located. The bars aid inspectors and tire dealers to quickly assess tread depth for safety and sales. They are required on all DOT tires.

[bmarshall1]

This is complete BS. The triangles/arrows on tires (Michelin uses a little Michelin-man) are indicators for where the tire tread depth measurement bars are located. The bars aid inspectors and tire dealers to quickly assess tread depth for safety and sales. They are required on all DOT tires.

Hmm, I'll have to go out and check that out. If that be the case then they would purposefully have to have been placed where they are t o assure they would not be scrubbed off.  Maybe they serve a dual function?  I don't really know how much a properly inflated and set up car should roll up the edge of the tire.

[ChrisA]

Some may have found the Tread Wear Indicator (TWI), helpful in dialing in certain tires but, that is not the original design purpose. If the purpose was to be used as a tool to judge the ideal contact & tread use, than I'm clueless on how to adjust my truck's tires.

 

[nballard76]

This is complete BS. The triangles/arrows on tires (Michelin uses a little Michelin-man) are indicators for where the tire tread depth measurement bars are located. The bars aid inspectors and tire dealers to quickly assess tread depth for safety and sales. They are required on all DOT tires.

Perhaps I was BSd...a pretty reliable source told me that.  Perhaps he was just saying it's a good reference and ironically, my wear ends up being right around there.  Bmarshall was saying his wear marks are just inside and he's coming off a pound or two firmer than I am...which makes sense actually.

[Alberto]

Alberto - What exactly does the blue ring mean? I searched but could not find an answer.  Some on the internet said it's too much heat, some say end of tire life, some say it does not mean anything.  My 20+ heat cycled Toyos had it, my new 8 cycle Toyos do not and I know the new ones were run much harder.

 

 

Trying to explain it a little better...  I guess It's not so much a blue ring.  It is more like the first 10% of the tire surface near the outer shoulder gets hotter and discolored with a blue-ish hue.  The outer section near the shoulder winds up being a little more worn comparatively.  here's a decent explantion with some pics.
https://motoiq.com/t...28-race-tire/3/

 

I aim for 31.5-32 psi hot on RRs (as Nate mentioned).  Of course that assumes our tire pressure gauges are reading similarly.

The tires feel a bit more slippery over 32.

[bmarshall1]

Trying to explain it a little better...  I guess It's not so much a blue ring.  It is more like the first 10% of the tire surface near the outer shoulder gets hotter and discolored with a blue-ish hue.  The outer section near the shoulder winds up being a little more worn comparatively.  here's a decent explantion with some pics.
https://motoiq.com/t...28-race-tire/3/

 

I aim for 31.5-32 psi hot on RRs (as Nate mentioned).  Of course that assumes our tire pressure gauges are reading similarly.

The tires feel a bit more slippery over 32.

Thanks Alberto -  That article mentions  that overheating the tire is the cause of bluing, which I can understand and makes sense as the oils are driven out of the tire due to heat.  In my ever lasting quest to learn and dig deeper, I wonder why my newer tires that I know were run harder were not blued.  Maybe I answered my own question: older tires are easier to overheat, thus the bluing on the older tires but not the new.(?) 

 

Perhaps that could be an indicator that the tires are done and need to be replaced...? 

 

Speaking about tire pressure, a few of my fastest laps at Sebring were when I went out on tires aired up to 36 as a starting pressure and exited over 40 lbs.  I was driving extra smooth and it seems to have paid off.

[Alberto]

I think it takes a bit for the blue-ing to become visually obvious.  You'll see the slightly odd wear first. 

 

Tires do tend to age out and heat cycle out before the rubber wears out - at least for guys at our skill level.  The fast guys wear out the rubber sooner.    

 

 

I started learning last year that there are a lot of differences in wear rates and what wears and how things wear between the pointy end of the field and the rest of the field.