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#1
Kevin Anderson

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One thing That we seem to get some discussion on from time to time is " Towing, Trailers, Haulers, Trucks" a place for that would be nice.

Thanks
Kevin Anderson
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#2
JayF

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One thing That we seem to get some discussion on from time to time is " Towing, Trailers, Haulers, Trucks" a place for that would be nice.

Thanks


I agree 100%. It is definitly an area that we spend a lot of time on and a dedicated area for this would be great.
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#3
GreenValley

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Hello all, long time lurker (specmiata forums) first time poster. I am hoping you all can help me. I am in the market for a tow vehicle and have been going back and forth between V6 and V8 models.

What is the most common tow vehicle among the crowd here ?

What problems has anyone run into with a V6 vs V8 ?


What are some of the average weights of your cars with trailer loaded ?

Thank you.

#4
JayF

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Hello all, long time lurker (specmiata forums) first time poster. I am hoping you all can help me. I am in the market for a tow vehicle and have been going back and forth between V6 and V8 models.

What is the most common tow vehicle among the crowd here ?

What problems has anyone run into with a V6 vs V8 ?


What are some of the average weights of your cars with trailer loaded ?

Thank you.


Welcome! What type of trailer are you looking to tow with? Open or enclosed? Are you looking for an SUV or a pickup? I just went through all of this myself. Is the tow vehicle going to be a daily driver or towing/utility specific? I am going to be towing a 20' enclosed and I made the sacrifice on my daily driver and I picked up an 07 Tundra with the 5.7. I'll have no problem towing the load and being a 1/2 ton truck it is pretty comfortable as a daily driver.

Trailer weights, figure you've got 2200 with the car. An open deck trailer in steel will probably be 1500-2000 lbs. If you go enclosed a 20' enclosed is going to be between 3300-4000 lbs depending on options. Also dont forget to add in weight for extras. If you have enclosed you'll carry a lot more stuff to the track with you. Also the bigger and longer the vehicle you use the more stable it will be towing.
-- Jay --
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North East SCCA

#5
dmathias

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My first tow vehicle was a V6 powered 1/2 ton Chevy panel van. Maybe not the best choice for comparison, but it was fine as long as the road was level, hills presented a definite challenge.

Would not recommend a V6 tow vehicle. Better to have more capacity than needed - it's good to have something in reserve, especially if you tow through the Blue Ridge Mountains like I do going from Ohio to VIR.

P.S. I tow an open 16' trailer with a Chevy Tahoe. I can accelerate up hills.
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#6
dstevens

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I towed for several years with a V6 Escape with a tow package. Good for small loads but a Miata is going to put it at the limit. A couple years back we got a great deal on an F150 with a 5.4L gas, tow package, etc. That would be the minimum I'd recommend. If you are going to tow a larger enclosed trailer often in varying conditions a larger tow vehicle is recommended for example a 1 ton. The newer 6 L plus diesels are torque monsters. The truck is also my daily driver and the only bummer is some extra fuel costs. My commute is only 20 miles round trip but if I had one of those massive So Cal style commutes the extra fuel adds up. Freeway around 65 mph I can top out at 20 mpg or so but I average about 15 mpg all around. Towing fully loaded is about 12 mpg but still better than the 10 or so I got with the Escape.

#7
William Bonsell

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I've been towing a 16' open trailer with tire rack, etc with a Jeep Cherokee 5.7 Hemi with an installed brake controller (a must). Only thing I would do different is to install some spring assists in the rear to keep the back end more level. Other than that, it's been fine. Bought a motor home over the winter so my towing situation will certainly be different. Not sure how the heck I'm supposed to see backing up to mate with the hitch and all. Should be fun, but being able to change and get out of the weather -priceless!

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#8
wreckerboy

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You're going to get answers all over the book on this one. You'll hear everything from "In Yurrop they think nothing of towing a full sized car on a single axle trailer with BMW Isetta" to "Anything short of a Freightliner is asking for instant flaming death."

The discussion is really about capacity, not just in getting the load moving, but in keeping it under control and perhaps most importantly, being able to get it stopped in a hurry. It's inevitable that at some point Sally Brain Dead is going to pull out directly in front of you on the highway doing 15 MPH while you are legally rolling along at the speed limit, and you are going to need to either move out of her way or get it woahed down in a hurry. Which would you rather have to do that with, a minivan working at 90% of it's rated capacity, or a 1 ton truck loafing along at 50%? Another consideration is where you are towing - are you in the relatively flat mid-west, where getting up and down hills is not that big an issue, or is climbing grades a concern? Sure, that Dodge Caravan may be rated to pull the load you've got behind it, but is it comfortable doing so on a 90 degree day, uphill, possibly into a head wind?

You'll never hear anybody complain about having too much truck for the job, just too little. I use a Ford V10 E350 SWB passenger van. The V10 was cheap to buy because of the perceived lousy MPG, but in reality it gets the same or better than the V8 trucks because it is working well withing its limits and essentially loafing in my open trailer application. Vans have dry, out of sight lockable storage, go for small dollars because they are "uncool" and are perfect for the application.

It's all about having the right tool for the job. The van would be a nightmare to feed and fuel on a daily driver basis, so I don't use the van for that - I have a beater Miata for street duty. Even at that, the cost of purchasing, operating and insuring two vehicles (the van was bought when it was nine months old) puts me ahead of the game.

YMMV
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#9
Scottie

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Green Valley,

Everyone here on the forum is absolutely correct. I, like Jay, daily drive my 08 tundra and pull with it (also a 20 ft enclosed). From my house in VA to Summit Point, I end up climbing some pretty serious hills. The truck does well. However, I cant imagine having v6 on that.

Although turbo diesels are amazing, be sure you can justify the cost of one. Oil changes aren't cheap in those.

Also, if you have ever seen Wreckerboy's van, you would be extremely jealous. It is the only cool van on the road. plus, it has brakes.
How do I fit this Ls7 into my mia.... nevermind

#10
Keith Novak

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I would advise against compromising and buying a small V8. My experience with a 5-speed 4.7L Dakota was that it didn't make a very good daily driver, and it made a pretty lousy tow vehicle.
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#11
GreenValley

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Thank you all for your fast replies. This community is great ! The responses are great, but now I am more confused than when I started ! :rolleyes: There have been some game changing ideas you all have tossed out there too. The van ? Never concidered it, but great dual purpose.

The comments about the smaller V8, going up hills in 90 deg heat, all things that a smaller vehicle would dog out on and frustrate me or eventually give way to the laws of physics....

What type of trailer are you looking to tow with? Open or enclosed? Are you looking for an SUV or a pickup?



This is what I am going back and forth on open or enclosed. I like the idea of having enclosed, but also the cost and ease of a trailer. I really didnt want to get an SUV, I am an SUV hater... But if it means having to change to get my racecar to the track, I am willing to make a sacrafice. I am on craigslist every day looking and now have added in vans,cargo trucks and excluded V6 from the mix all together.

Thank you again everyone for your comments, I am still looking and any more info is appreciated.

#12
Scottie

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This is what I am going back and forth on open or enclosed. I like the idea of having enclosed, but also the cost and ease of a trailer. I really didnt want to get an SUV, I am an SUV hater... But if it means having to change to get my racecar to the track, I am willing to make a sacrafice. I am on craigslist every day looking and now have added in vans,cargo trucks and excluded V6 from the mix all together.

Thank you again everyone for your comments, I am still looking and any more info is appreciated.


I am not an SUV guy either. Hell, I never even liked trucks. But I knew I needed something to tow with. I am freakin' in love my Tundra. It is awesome. I drive it everyday. So you may be surprised after some test drives.

As for the trailer. I got a 20ft enclosed for under 3k. Granted, it has seen better days. But, it is great because it gives me some cover from the weather. Not to mention it fits a really big air mattress that I slept on at the track once. I hang my drivers suit and all my stuff in there as well. Enclosed is def worth it.
How do I fit this Ls7 into my mia.... nevermind

#13
GreenValley

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I use a Ford V10 E350 SWB passenger van. The V10 was cheap to buy because of the perceived lousy MPG, but in reality it gets the same or better than the V8 trucks because it is working well withing its limits and essentially loafing in my open trailer application. Vans have dry, out of sight lockable storage, go for small dollars because they are "uncool" and are perfect for the application.

YMMV



I am looking and see a lot of these available in my area that are very affordable. Most are V8. How well do you think a V8 version of this van would tow ? I am liking the idea of a van if the back could be converted to storage and a place to crash if needed. In the begining my plan was to get a truck to use as a some driver, drive my beater Miata as daily, and rent a trailer from U-Haul or buy an open trailer for a good price. I figured more on the truck by not buying an enclosed trailer. I can always upgrade the trailer easier than the truck. But as I see some of the other options, I know I need more truck or vehicle. It will be hot, and there will be steep grades, and as much as I like 260 air conditioning, sometimes you gotta use the real stuff.

#14
wreckerboy

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Some of the later V8 trucks make a ton of torque and are quite capable of towing either an open or a enclosed. The difference is as I noted: the V10 does it with ease (as in "set the cruise at 75 and leave the AC on in the hills" ease), and the V10 trucks have a terrible gas mileage reputation which depresses their prices.

I am glad to see you aren't discounting the comfort factor. At the end of a long weekend of racing the ability to get in a nice truck and make an easy ride home (for example, our commute to Summit is 260 miles each way) cannot be overstated. I've towed with underpowered rigs (how about a 2WD Nissan pick up pulling a ITA RX7 on an open trailer to Watkins Glen from Charlotte?) and the luxury of having to do all of the hard driving at the track is wonderful. Tow vehicle choice is just like your girlfriend and/or wife says: "Bigger is better."

Stay away from the U-Haul rentals if you can at all do so. My experience was horrific - despite their "reservation" system, the promised trailer was never guaranteed to be where they said it would be when they said it would be. The trailers themselves are so heavy that they could do severe damage to the Queen Mary in a head on collision. They are near universally poorly maintained (bald, leaky tires, bad brakes, and lights that are merely conceptual is the norm).

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#15
dstevens

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Vans are typically a truck platform with a van body. Mechanically, many (if not most) models are identical. The tow package option is nice to have. It's basically a lower rear gear, trans cooler, brake controller wiring in on higher end packages specialized suspension and anti sway. You c an tow without a package but the lower gear will give you more capacity, the cooler will reduce trans wear and the brake controller will save brake and make towing safer.

I rented a U Haul for just over a season when I started stock cars. Pretty much a PITA most times. You have to wait in line, sometimes they don't have the inventory and the price starts to add up. Around here it's about 80 bucks a day with tax and insurance. I was saving to buy a nice Pace enclosed but the kicker was when, even though I had a reservation U Haul in Vegas, all of them, had no auto transporters for more than a month. (it was during the 2009-2010 exodus from Sin City) A friend that wasn't racing at the time loaned me his until I found a deal on CL. I got an 18' Carson open trailer for a grand but it needed some work to be legal. Expect to spend around 1200-1500 for a 16' used thogh there are some off brand places in areas that sell direct, new, for about that same price.

Dave

#16
dstevens

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Some of the later V8 trucks make a ton of torque and are quite capable of towing either an open or a enclosed. The difference is as I noted: the V10 does it with ease (as in "set the cruise at 75 and leave the AC on in the hills" ease), and the V10 trucks have a terrible gas mileage reputation which depresses their prices.


The late model 5.7 L are just as capable of towing as the V10. My V8 has a hp/tq of 300/365. The V10 of that same model year for the Econoline 150 and 250 is 305/420. Dealer difference IIRC is about 800 for the V10 comapred to the base model diesel. I think more than mileage the V10 wasn't accepted because for the money it couldn't beat the diesel in terms of towing capacity. The base model diesel offers 350/650. The V10 is offered as an option for people that want a bit more ummph than the V8 but don't want to go diesel.

Dave

#17
JayF

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Some of the later V8 trucks make a ton of torque and are quite capable of towing either an open or a enclosed. The difference is as I noted: the V10 does it with ease (as in "set the cruise at 75 and leave the AC on in the hills" ease), and the V10 trucks have a terrible gas mileage reputation which depresses their prices.

I am glad to see you aren't discounting the comfort factor. At the end of a long weekend of racing the ability to get in a nice truck and make an easy ride home (for example, our commute to Summit is 260 miles each way) cannot be overstated. I've towed with underpowered rigs (how about a 2WD Nissan pick up pulling a ITA RX7 on an open trailer to Watkins Glen from Charlotte?) and the luxury of having to do all of the hard driving at the track is wonderful. Tow vehicle choice is just like your girlfriend and/or wife says: "Bigger is better."

Stay away from the U-Haul rentals if you can at all do so. My experience was horrific - despite their "reservation" system, the promised trailer was never guaranteed to be where they said it would be when they said it would be. The trailers themselves are so heavy that they could do severe damage to the Queen Mary in a head on collision. They are near universally poorly maintained (bald, leaky tires, bad brakes, and lights that are merely conceptual is the norm).


That was one of the reason's I went with the Tundra 5.7 I've got 380hp/401 torque in a 1/2 truck. Ford's 3/4 V8 is 385/405 and the Chevy/GM 2500 V8 is 360/380. So i've got 3/4 power with the comfort of a 1/2 truck. The trucks big enough for my needs and for the size of trailer I want to tow yet comfortable and easy to get around with every day and my wife has no problem driving it as well.

On the uhaul trailer note. What a friggin mess they are. I have used them twice to get my car to and from the cage builder since I dont have a trailer yet. I made my reservation at the same place both times for pickup, 5 min from my house. First time I had to go 15 min away to get it, and the 2nd time was about 25. Also they screw with you on the time you have it. I wanted it first thing in the morning and both times they tried to schedule me for a 2pm pickup. Trailers are garbage and the 2nd one was missing a D-ring in the back so I had to half ass one of the tie downs on the trailer in the back.
-- Jay --
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#18
dstevens

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Most equipment rental yards have auto transporters for rent about the same cost as U Haul. If there is an Ahern in your area they're likely to have one. Get the one for autos, not heavy equipment. One bummer is if they aren't open over the weekend it's three day rental. Not bad if you are doing a weekend of club racing but if you are doing a Sat night of short track it triples the cost.

A tip if you have to go to U Haul is to go to your local Central Station or CS in person. That's the big yard where they fix the equipment. Most of the time when I did that they had them but a few times they didn't. I was able to develop a report with them but as I needed the heavier, or the galvanized version, they were a bit harder to source. The reservation line is nightmare and not suited well for local rental and was almost never at the location they sent me.

#19
Tom Sager

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This might be one topic where there are more opinions than the parity discussion.

I was in the market for a tow vehicle last year. Ended up with a 4 wheel drive 2010 Ford F-150 crew cab long wheelbase with 6.5' box. Here's why...

1. I was looking for used, but got $9K off sticker on a new one.
2. Ford box is deep enough to put tires in upright and still close a cover over the bed.
3. Ford was only manufacturer that offered crew cab and 6.5' box in a half ton.
4. I use an open trailer. All needed spares and tools fit in 6.5' box but I travel lighter than many.
5. Crew cab has enormous room for stuff and people.
6. Fuel mileage on newer V-8's improved over 2+ year old models. I get 13.5 MPG towing on highway with 5.4 motor and 6-speed auto.
7. Towing capacity of the truck is ridiculous for a half ton, 9000 pounds.
8. Long wheelbase has heavier duty suspension.
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#20
dstevens

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Without the 4WD and the Crew Cab and with the 3.55 rear end you could tow 10,200#. ;) Most open trailers are 7000 GVW so even at 9k that's plenty. I wouldn't want to tow all the time at my full rating. A national kart team I ran with used up a new F150 in a couple years towing at capacity cross country all the time with a 10k GVW enclosed 28'er. They traded it in for an F250 diesel and have had it for about 4 years now. The Crew Cab is a good thing to have. I've got a Super Cab and I wouldn't want to sit back there for anything more than an in town drive.




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