19 replies to this topic

[Motor City Hamilton]

Does anyone have any tricks to aligning the rear wheels that they care to share? I use the ICM string alignment system, so I trust the method for measuring things accurately. What I am looking for are ways to cut down on the number of trial and error settings that I seem to go through for setting camber and toe. It just seems to take me forever to get the settings right. As you know, when you adjust the suspension cam bolts in the rear, they affect both toe and camber.

What I do now.
1. Bounce car on each side, roll backwards, then forwards.
2. Measure toe and camber settings.
3. Jack car and make camber adjustemnts.
4. Repeat until desired camber.
5. Adjust toe by trying to move both front and rear camber bolts at the same time, one clockwise and the other counter clockwise. Hoping to keep camber setting from changing much.

It just seems that I have to go back and forth between camber and toe, many, many times before I get it.

[FTodaro]

There is no real short cut to what you are doing. I have a lift so that cuts down on some of the time. As you do more of it you get used to what it takes and you can make few changes. I am a little more concerned about rear toe rather than camber I want the toe perfect but If I am a degree or two off on Camber i may not go back to fix it. It just depends on where I am at.

[dmathias]

The simplest way I know is to drive my SM 10 minutes to my friendly local tire shop where they have me drive it on their laser alignment rack and stay in the car. They proceed to set the rear (and front) alignment to the nearest 1/100 of a degree. I'm good until someone punts me or I go agricultural.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

There is no real short cut to what you are doing. I have a lift so that cuts down on some of the time. As you do more of it you get used to what it takes and you can make few changes. I am a little more concerned about rear toe rather than camber I want the toe perfect but If I am a degree or two off on Camber i may not go back to fix it. It just depends on where I am at.

I think you mean if you are off a tenth of a degree you may not go back and fix it. If you are off a degree you would definitely need to fix it.

[AJ Roderick]

I'm with Denny on the alignment rack. Luckily we have one at the Tuffy shop we run out of.

[Keith Novak]

As you do more of it you get used to what it takes and you can make few changes.

+1 I don't have a lift and the first time I did my alignment, the first corner was a bloody PITA. Crawling under the strings each time got old very quickly. It seemed like some sort of ill concieved excercise program. After mucking about for a while I started to figure out how to adjust both the camber and toe at the same time. Things went much quicker from there.

A proper caster camber gauge helps. Using my Sears digital laser level but holding the level on the toe stick while trying to position the stick on the rim and getting it vertical drove me crazy. I also quickly learned why some people keep a set of daisy wheels on hand for doing their setup.

[FTodaro]

I think you mean if you are off a tenth of a degree you may not go back and fix it. If you are off a degree you would definitely need to fix it.

Yes you are right. down to a tenth of a degree.

[Bruce Wilson]

Alginment stands, turn plates and an assistant make it go substantially faster. That's about $1,200 of equipment but if you search the specmiata.com site, you'll find a lot of creative alternatives. The stands allow you to make adjustments without jacking the car and with plates you don't have to roll and bounce and still get repeatable results. I make adjustments or re-align at the track most every race weekend and it usually takes longer to setup and level the stands than the time it takes to adjust toe/camber/cross.

We use known straight stock alloy wheels because the lip on the rims hold the smart camber gauage w/ hands free perfectly. No, different width and diameter doesn't matter, and even if you don't agree, just remember repeatability is what matters most.

-bw

[Richard Pressman]

Here are a couple things that work for me.

Try sitting the car up on a few 2x12's cut to about two feet in length and screwed together. Shim them as level as you can and place a couple plastic trash bags between the tires and the 2x's. That will give you plenty of room to get under the car to adjust the cam bolts w/o interfering with the strings and let the tires move w/o having to roll or bounce the car. I find that jacking the car moves the string frames enough to change the measurments. If you feel you must roll the car the blocks are long enough to handle it. I put little "cleats" on the blocks so the car can't roll or slip off.

When adjusting the rear's, I roll the cam bolts IN to give the wheel much LESS camber than I want. Then I roll them out just enough to get the toe pretty close to what I want. Then with a wrench on each cam bolt I roll them out together until I'm about a half a degree shy of my goal camber. The last half degree of camber is gained tweaking the toe (by rolling the bolts OUT) until it is perfect.

Works for me. YMMV.

Good luck.

[Juan Pineda]

You definitely want the stands that Bruce mentions to get the car off the ground. You need to tighten the bolts with the weight on the wheels. Remember all those bushings are soft and they will move around until tightened. Note that the torque spec on the cam bolts is 85lbs, same as lug nuts. You can't get that with a hand on an 8" wrench, which I'm convinced is why a lot of people have their alignment go off when they put wheels off. Bearing down on an 8" wrench with the weight of your foot can get you enough torque. Or you can just use your lug torque wrench.

[Mark]

I am fortunate to have a lift. Best 2k I ever spent. The lift combined with some Race Ramp wheel stands make doing alignments a breeze. The combo has paid for itself many times over. If I didn't have the lift I'd seriously consider the Race Ramp portable Pit Stop. Seems pricey but after all the hours spent crawling around on the ground and time spent dealing with jacks and jack stands I now consider this something close to a bargain.

Some tips on the rear toe -

- Use slip plates. A lot of time is wasted rolling the car back and forth.

- If you've got scales and scale pads use them. The extra height is a real help. .

- There is not too much bump steer back there (if any?). Measure the toe with the car on the ground and determine how much needs to be done. Then get the car up in the air. Still using the strings as a reference, Move the adjustment the amount needed to make things right with the car on the ground. This will get you 90-95% of the way there. Good for 'roughing' things in.

- Turn the cam bolts around so that all the bolt heads are facing to the rear. Break loose the cam adjusters and leave them a little snug to just hold things in place. Put the car back down on the slip plates. Now you can get to the adjusters with a couple of long 1/2" extensions and a wobbly You can make your toe and camber adjustments w/o going up and down a zillion times.

Mark

[jguthrie]

Mark

I also use a 2 post lift. I use scales on the floor and 2x 12 to match scale height so I can roll car. I use the Canyon string for alignments then use lift for adjustments.
Are the race ramp stands 14 inch high?
What are you using for slip plates?
What are using to prevent rolling off stands?
Thanks for your post
John

[FTodaro]

I have the iron canyon set up so rolling the car is not that much of an issue. On the cam bolts, I can get a 17mm short socket on a craftsman breaker bar. I also went to harbor freight and bought a set of extra long wrenches. The 17 mm wrench is like 15 inches long. I am not real quick at my alignments. I get a beer in one hand and a wrench in the other.

[Mark]

Suffice it to say, I am pretty familiar with the Iron Canyon Motorsports string system. LOL.

For low buck slip plates I like something like 1/16" thick 12" square metal plate sandwiched with a bit of oil or grease between the plates. If desperate I'll use industrial acrylic floor tiles from Home Depot and do the same. These don't hold up too well though as they are brittle when cold and soft and flexible when hot but at $1 ea who cares? I have not had good success with plastic bags as slip plates though others swear by them. When the car is on the stands and scales I have the car in gear and hovering just off the lift arms to catch it should anything move along with a couple of pieces of angle stock to act as a wheel chocks. Race Ramp wheel stands are 14", add another 2.5" for the scales. Very nice for working under the car. Pretty tough to get a car up that high without a lift. I used to use 10" high stands but with a lift height is no longer an issue and the Race Ramp stands are nice as they weigh almost nothing so it is really easy to move them around.as needed.

Mark
markn@ironcanyonmotorsports.com

[jguthrie]

Mark

didnt realize you came out with Iron canyon string alignment,talk to you before I purchase your string system,you were very helpful,like your product,it is like seat time ,the more you spend the better you get,I enjoy learning the setup almost as much as driving.I have the tiles your referring to,I use them as spacers to level out my scales. I try the stands,thanks again for your help.

[Zauskycop]

Holy run-on sentences Batman!

[jguthrie]

I thought the subject was setups, Robin.
If you want proper grammer,check out spec grammer.com

[Dave Lewis]

Kieth,stop by and pick up my set-up blocks, I plan on being home all day.

[Motor City Hamilton]

Let's talk Dave. Would like to see what you are using. I am doing most of what has been recommended here. I have blocks that raise the car and make it easy to roll onto the scales. I am overly meticulous about repeatability. I don't currently use toe plates or garage bags or tiles. May have to think about adding those. Still think I'd want to bounce and roll the car after making a change (repeatability).

I do like the suggestion about getting the camber close first, then be super precise with toe and if the camber falls back 0.1, then call it good enough. I have been trying to manage to within 0.1 for my desired camber and within 1MM for my toe settings. Maybe I can relax a little on being so precise on the camber.

Dave, if you're around in about two week's, I may ask you to come over for a visit while I'm doing the setups. We may learn from each other. I think I have a good method, but it just takes time, especially doing it all by myself. I am shooting to be on track for the Waterford Hills July 2nd open track day. Are you or your kid planning to be there?

[Bruce Wilson]

With good high quality turn plates, you won't need to bounce and roll to get to repeatable. We only do that when we're changing cross because we remove the turn plates to use the scales. We have repeatable down to our alignment being the same months later. Yes sometimes we go months without getting hit or going 2 or 4 off

-bw