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June Sprints: not worth it?

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#1
Steve Miller

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So I'm signed up for the June Sprints, largely because my wife (a SRF racer) wants to go.

And there's about 27 pages of track rules to sort through, and all this assigned-paddock-space stuff (which means that she and I will be paddocked about three counties away from one another), and now this Thou Shalt Use The Spec Fuel And Screw With Draining Your Tank silliness. Oh, and a practice day where I'll be lucky to get 16 laps to learn the track, even though the last time I checked there were 56ish cars total signed up to test on a 4.1-mile track.

It ain't the runoffs. I really don't give a damn about going to the runoffs. I'm increasingly wondering if it's worth running the Sprints or if I should just vote with my feet and cancel. Racing is supposed to be fun. This is increasingly not feeling like fun. And I'm usually the one asking for tighter tech and more clearly delineated procedures, so for me to complain about having too many rules is probably an indication that, well, there's too many rules...

Given the low number of SMs signed up, I'm also wondering if I'm not the only one who's thinking this is out of hand...

-Steve

#2
dmathias

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Maybe go and just crew for your wife?
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#3
davew

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As title sponsor for the Spec Miata race, welcome.

The Sprints is "Not Just Another Race" as the t-shirts say.

You get many drivers from around the country that have never been to the track. So the supps are spelled out very clearly, and very wordy. And many pages are dedicated to parking maps. The only really important difference at Road America is that you NOT ALLOWED to walk the track at night. The rule has been enforced strongly in recent years. Has been in effect for as long as I have been going up there.

Assigned parking really is a must. Otherwise people would start lining up in the street today, in order to get their favorite paddock space. Chicago region does their best to accomidate everyone. I would drop an email to the parking coordinator (I think it is in the supps) and tell him your situation. He will get the 2 of you together. I spoke with him yesterday and he is going a little nuts right now.

The track is fairly simple. Brake-turn-gas. But due to the length of the track, you do not get many "looks" at each corner. Videos help. If the car count is low, the track will usually rearrainge the schedule. remeber the test day is put on by Road America and not SCCA. You may also want to enter STU for extra track time. Remeber to pump your brakes after hitting the rumble strips. They are very rough and will cause pad knock back, and a looooong pedal at the next corner.

Enjoy the Sprints. It is the next best thing to the Runoffs.

Dave

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#4
Tom Maycock

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Steve:

I'm not going to try to tell you whether or not it's worth it--that's a very personal decision. But, a few points:

* The supps are about the same length as for any event. Yes, the entry book contains lots of other info, such as details on the parking program and paddock maps, as Dave noted. There's even more info in the official program we provide for all competitors! RA has, I believe, one page of track rules, same as for any event held there, so your estimate was off by about 26 pages. I'd recommend reading all of it, but to suggest that the Sprints are more "rules heavy" than any SCCA event really isn't true.

* Again, as Dave noted, the reserved paddock program is there for the benefit of the competitors. If you think we do it for kicks or for the money, just ask parking coordinator Dave Karling how much fun he's having trying to accommodate everyone's needs. And ask your fellow long-term competitors how much better this is than the old "land rush" days.

* And yes, if you registered and requested reserved paddock space, as long as you let Dave know who you wanted to paddock with, he will almost certainly have accommodated that request.

* There is plenty of free, unreserved paddock space. Most of it will work just fine for Spec Miatas. Want to park with your buddies and do it for free? Just paddock in one of the unreserved spots. Your friendly June Sprints on-site parking staff will even make an effort to help you find where your buddies are paddocked, even if they are in unreserved spots.

* Spec fuel: Another item that's a complete and total pain in the ass to deal with from an organizational standpoint. Why are we doing it? Because your fellow competitors asked for it. Yes, it can be a pain in the ass to competitors, and cost you some money. But, with luck, it helps eliminate yet another variable, towards the goal of keeping Spec Miata as "spec" as possible.

Thanks,
Tom Maycock
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#5
Jim Drago

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So I'm signed up for the June Sprints, largely because my wife (a SRF racer) wants to go.

And there's about 27 pages of track rules to sort through, and all this assigned-paddock-space stuff (which means that she and I will be paddocked about three counties away from one another), and now this Thou Shalt Use The Spec Fuel And Screw With Draining Your Tank silliness. Oh, and a practice day where I'll be lucky to get 16 laps to learn the track, even though the last time I checked there were 56ish cars total signed up to test on a 4.1-mile track.

It ain't the runoffs. I really don't give a damn about going to the runoffs. I'm increasingly wondering if it's worth running the Sprints or if I should just vote with my feet and cancel. Racing is supposed to be fun. This is increasingly not feeling like fun. And I'm usually the one asking for tighter tech and more clearly delineated procedures, so for me to complain about having too many rules is probably an indication that, well, there's too many rules...

Given the low number of SMs signed up, I'm also wondering if I'm not the only one who's thinking this is out of hand...

-Steve



Steve
I hope you haven't made your mind up already? :(

The Sprints is my favorite race of the year, always has been, always will be. Winning it twice, The Sprints wins are my biggest accomplishments in racing.
There are 42 SM 's registered, That is a low turn out?
As far as spec fuel, unfortunately the top 12-15 guys had one last year, it was $38.00 a gallon. The Spec fuel is the only way to fly IMO and I applaud the Chicago region for implementing it.

If you haven't been, it is a beautiful par of the country during a great time of the year. IMO, it is one of the finest facilities we race on.

You can chose to see the bad in any situation, or you can look at the good, that is a choice we all make.

I'm sure if you speak to Dave Karling and let him know about your parking situation, they will try to address it.

Hopefully you will make it and have a good time.

Jim

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#6
Danny Steyn

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GO GO GO - NEVER miss this one! IMHO one of the best times at a track - way better and more fun and ZERO drama compared to the runoffs!!

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#7
Jim Drago

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way better and more fun and ZERO drama compared to the runoffs!!


+1

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#8
dstevens

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If you aren't going to have fun don't race. I'd rather regret not running than spend a few grand and hate it. Done more than my share. However, RA should be on every road racers bucket list. It's a proper road race circuit. The general vibe around the track is pretty good, camping is almost a must for the full experience. Bending some elbows at Siebken's aways fun, always packed on race weekend. Outside of club sports car racing those rules are pretty common. Spec fuel (should be required at every national), assigned paddock, etc are all staples of other race series, including high level karting.

#9
Steve Miller

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Thanks for the input. I do expect to go; if I have a great time, great, and if not, OTB. (By way of background, it's not like I'm new to all this: it's a stretch to say I race a lot of nationals, but I probably do a few a year, and I do a ton of regional events, and I've been doing this for nearly a decade, with not just the SCCA but for a long time with NASA and EMRA and -- for a while at least -- any racing organization that'd give me a license. (-: )

Some of the details of the paddock situation is, I admit, largely unique to me: I'm being supported by someone who has a good reason to be in one place (near you, Dave, I think) and my wife is being supported by someone with a good reason to be in a different place. It's not so much any one thing that has me at the brink, it's the combination.

To refresh my memory, I pulled up the Entry Booklet, which is 22 pages printed. To be fair, there's a lot of map stuff in there, too, and some other complicating factors, but I think the supps for Watkins Glen are typically more like 2 pages (or maybe it's NCRSCCA I'm thinking about at VIR), and those for WDCR SCCA at Summit Point are more like 4 pages (though IMHO 5 would be a better number, as I think we should put a paddock map in there, though there is at least a link). But still, that's a lot of stuff.

About "staples of other race series": there's a reason I don't run those other series. Heck, my wife had an E30 M3 racecar for a while, and we'd considered going BMW CCA club racing, just because. We signed up for our licenses, and we got the ginormous pile of stickers and other crud we needed to deal with... and we put 'em back in the box, it just wasn't worth it.

I do worry (in general), and clearly the club worries as well, that we make doing this stuff so complicated that we put up a pretty significant barrier to entry for someone trying to do something different. On the one hand, if we're going to do that, I'd rather it be at a national than a regional, but on the other hand my reaction whenever I see a lot of complication building up tends to be to find a way to reduce it. Sometimes -- and understand that I am playing devils' advocate a bit at this point -- the thing to do is to say, "yeah, it just does have to be that way" and document it. Sometimes the thing to do is step back a bit, and look at it fresh, and think if the way to deal isn't to make the byzantine paperwork more detailed but to make the process similar.

And I do recognize (and appreciate) the effort that everyone puts into this and every other race, and I recognize that there's a lot of stuff where the reaction is, "we could make that better if we had infinite time but we don't so this is the best we can reasonably do."

Maybe this is all just a complicated way to point out that this is somewhat daunting and if someone did have bright ideas as to how to make it less daunting, it might be worth thinking about how to do that. Though in response to the comment about "we're doing what the racers asked for" I'll point out that sometimes people (yes, myself included) ask for things where the right response is, "uh, no."

#10
Tom Maycock

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FWIW, it's 3 pages of supps, 2 pages of "participant info", 1 page of track rules. The rest is parking info, entry forms (which you can ignore if registering online), etc. So, 5 pages of "rules".

A lot of it is pro forma stuff that's there just because it has to be, but there's some important info in there as well.

I guess I would argue that racing is a relatively serious and dangerous activity, and if you aren't up for at least skimming through 5 pages of information, and being familiar with the relevant bits of the GCR, well, other sports beckon as they say.

Given that I watch friends of mine routinely jump off the back of ES trucks to do hot-track, local-yellow-only, pulls at the Sprints, I think it's fair to expect racers take some time to be familiar with all the relevant rules and regs.

That being said, I think the national office's new "Make it easy, make it fun" mantra is a good one, and I hope that Chicago (and every other region) remains open to any specific suggestions on how we can work towards fulfilling those goals.

"Though in response to the comment about "we're doing what the racers asked for" I'll point out that sometimes people (yes, myself included) ask for things where the right response is, "uh, no." "

Don't worry--we say "no" a lot too. :-)

Tom

#11
Blake Clements

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If I hadn't already bought plane tickets and non refundable accomodations - I wouldn't be going. The track isn't fun enough to justify (snoozer in an SM) and the prices for test day and entry are outrageous.

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#12
Ed Muncie

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I've worked the June Sprints as a corner worker several times and had a blast each time. In my first year behind the wheel I'm not fast enough yet to join in as a competitor, but I really hope to soon. Don't forget that for some of us to be competitive at a race like the June Sprints would be a pretty big accomplishment and realization of a goal. It sounds like some folks that are already at that level may take it for granted, but don't forget the rest of us that are working hard to get there. I'll put up with 100 pages of rules if necessary - it's one of America's best tracks, one of the biggest club races, and it's in a very nice town to boot.

If you haven't enjoyed a weekend at Road America then you probably didn't make time to eat at the Lake Street Cafe (in the dining room - not the bar. The escargot cassoulet, tenderloin shiraz, and rack of lamb are phenomenal). You probably didn't know that the nice old lady that runs Gesserts Ice Cream shop closes from about 5-7:00 at night to cook her husband dinner, and then re-opens with one of the only authentic ice cream parlors from the 1940's still around. (Try a butterscotch malt - awesome.) You probably never had an all-you-can-eat fried blue gill dinner at the Lincoln Street Sports Bar or the Qui Qui Oc golf course on a Friday night. Make time to have a Fat Squirrel at Siebkens, and walk around and see the town and eat dinner there. It's small, but has a lot more to offer than people think. If you've got a motor home or room with a fridge, stop by the Feed Mill store for some great cheese and meat selections. Going to Road America without enjoying Elkhart Lake is missing out on a big part of a weekend up there for me.

If that still doesn't sound like fun, you can always come help me paint my house - which is what I'll be doing instead!

Here's wishing a fun and safe weekend to all the competitors.
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#13
Steve Miller

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I'm up to my ears in a bunch of other stuff club-related and not, but I wanted to respond quickly just to make one thing really clear: I have every intention of being familiar with what's in the supps. I have friends in EV and on corners and in the pits (and I think even in the stewards' office!), all of whom I try hard to give as little extra work as possible.

The fact that I don't like things to be any more complicated than they have to be doesn't mean I can't *deal* with complexity! I just don't always have to enjoy it. (-:

#14
dstevens

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The fact that I don't like things to be any more complicated than they have to be doesn't mean I can't *deal* with complexity! I just don't always have to enjoy it. (-:


I think the point is that it's not complex... B)
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#15
Steve Miller

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I think the point is that it's not complex... B)


Yes they are! No they're not! Yes they are! No they're not! B)

Seriously, I do think that we as a club underestimate or under-remember how intimidating doing some of this stuff for the first time can be. It's funny but I'm much more wigged by this sort of detail than I'm likely to be by anything occurring on (or near) the racing surface. Knock on wood.

And since I'm here again, I did want to comment on your earlier post: yes, some of these things may be de rigeur for a pro series or somesuch, but there's more than one reason I don't race in those things: I don't want to deal with all that, or at least I don't want to be forced to deal with it. I'd happily waive points -- and so long as I knew where I'd really finished, I'd be fine with being moved to the bottom of the timesheet -- to not have to jump through hoops. I pretty much routinely waive points when I have the choice and I'm racing in something that won't make a difference to any of my goals, anyway. (The other reason I don't race those things is that annoying thing where many of those guys have talent, and me, not so much...)

#16
Steve Miller

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If you haven't enjoyed a weekend at Road America then you probably didn't make time to (stuff)

If that still doesn't sound like fun, you can always come help me paint my house - which is what I'll be doing instead!

Here's wishing a fun and safe weekend to all the competitors.


Thanks for all the suggestions (and my wife says thanks, too)! I admit that one of the things that gets me past the usual set of Watkins Glen annoyances is all the good food nearby, along with attractions like the lake, the glass museum (which utterly and completely Does Not Suck), and so forth... And good luck painting the house.

#17
Tom Maycock

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If I hadn't already bought plane tickets and non refundable accomodations - I wouldn't be going. The track isn't fun enough to justify (snoozer in an SM) and the prices for test day and entry are outrageous.


Don't take this the wrong way, but: why did you sign up in the first place?

I think the point is that it's not complex... B)


:-)


to not have to jump through hoops.


What hoops? I mean let's be realistic--90% of the folks, at least the returnees don't read any of the info beyond basics--like registration dates and the schedule. Registering online takes somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes depending on whether you have your credit card memorized. Not many hoops there.

But let me try another angle: What, specifically, could we do to make it easier or more friendly--either for returning competitors or first-timers?

Thanks,
Tom

#18
Steve Miller

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What hoops? I mean let's be realistic--90% of the folks, at least the returnees don't read any of the info beyond basics--like registration dates and the schedule. Registering online takes somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes depending on whether you have your credit card memorized. Not many hoops there.

But let me try another angle: What, specifically, could we do to make it easier or more friendly--either for returning competitors or first-timers?


The paddock situation is a hoop. It sounds like a justified hoop but it's a hoop.

Not getting more time on the test day is a hoop -- not your hoop, but it's a hoop.

The spec fuel is a hoop. I don't mind refueling from that tanker, but the whole mess with drain-fuel-add-fuel-drain-fuel-again is a pain. I understand the reasons, particularly from the point of view of the front-runners, and I'm sympathetic to them: I may not run up front but at least I can usually see the front, even if that ain't happening at the Sprints. But jumping through the fuel hoops for the guy who finishes 32nd seems like it's just not necessary. Like I said, I'd be fine with waiving points (and might be fine with being moved to the bottom of the sheet) to not have to deal with that. Heck, I'm fine with failing a test due to whatever residue I have from Plain Honest Summit Point Gas, I just don't want that to turn into a federal case with points on my license and some vague perception that I'm trying to cheat. My fuel's squeaky clean. My car's squeaky clean (well, squeaky legal, I'm now waiting for Fowler to chime in). Especially given that my chances of finishing up front are slim to none I'd say that I have everything to lose and nothing to gain from the fuel testing.

And yes, I can be convinced that there's some wrinkle I haven't thought about that makes it such that just waiving points doesn't make it all better. That seems like an overall better approach than the other one I can think of (test top-N for some N), where there's always gonna be that guy who's N+1 or N+3 or whatever that you're going to think isn't clean.

#19
Brian Ghidinelli

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Steve - draining the tank requires a fuel jug, paper clip and about 10 minutes. If you run the test day, run a tank of the track gas and you should find yourself in a good spot for Friday. If not, you have to pump a couple of times. I pump after every session, so perhaps I'm numb to the pain?

We racers can't have it both ways: we either have rules and enforcement or we have a wild west. Damned if you do, damned if you don't is probably how the BoDs, SMAC and CRB feel 99% of the time... :)

You definitely don't need to drain-refuel-drain-refuel. Just run what you have, if you get tested, you lose your spot. That sounds like what you're willing to accept, so no need to be dramatic about it?
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#20
Blake Clements

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Don't take this the wrong way, but: why did you sign up in the first place?



:-)




What hoops? I mean let's be realistic--90% of the folks, at least the returnees don't read any of the info beyond basics--like registration dates and the schedule. Registering online takes somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes depending on whether you have your credit card memorized. Not many hoops there.

But let me try another angle: What, specifically, could we do to make it easier or more friendly--either for returning competitors or first-timers?

Thanks,
Tom


It was before I realized the test day gouging that is going on for two sessions. I was initially using it for Runoffs practice, but now that is not so important. Now I remember why everyone was complaining last year about the test day, my memory just sucks these days :)

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