16 replies to this topic

[Tom Hampton]

Okay, so there are a lot of firsts in this post:

First time at Eagles Canyon Raceway
First time using GoPro HD camera
First Video edited with Sony Vegas
First video posted to Vimeo (new vimeo plus account)
First vimeo video posted to this forum.

This video is of the last last session of the day. I ran the first two sessions with an instructor. I was approved for solo after the first session, but chose to run the second session with the instructor also. I elected to run the last two solo. He continued to watch my through the rest of the day, and was very complimentary. We talked about some of the things I was seeing out on the track as the day went on. He said I have great car control, which is a nice thing to hear. Given that I've only been on a track 4 times...maybe I won't suck too bad.

Anyway, this was my forth day at speed on a racetrack...and the second day with my own car. I did have a couple of bloopers in earlier sessions...a spin, and a couple tank slappers that I managed to save. I'll probably put those into a blooper reel.

[Tom Hampton]

And here are the bloopers. My first attempt at editing multiple clips together from different video files, and two clips from the same file. Played around with fade-in/out, and text overlay.

The spin was pretty self explanatory. Too close to the entry apex, left me committed to an early apex on the exit. My eyes weren't good enough to notice that, and I stayed in the throttle. It gets a little off camber there, and the back-end came around.

The tank-slapper was one of two things. Not sure which. At least once, I missed a heel-toe blip and broke the rear end loose. The other time, I was more deliberate and know I didn't miss the heel-toe. On a third lap I didn't even try...just went back to the basics of straight-line braking and shifting before turn-in. Even then the backend was very squirmy. Once back in the paddock, I checked the rear brakes and the passenger e-brake adjuster was full tight. The drivers side had about 1/8th of a turn or so. I backed these off 2 1/2 turns for the final session, and the car was back to normal---No further looseness. Coincidence, dunno. Thoughts?

[MPR22]

And here are the bloopers. My first attempt at editing multiple clips together from different video files, and two clips from the same file. Played around with fade-in/out, and text overlay.

The spin was pretty self explanatory. Too close to the entry apex, left me committed to an early apex on the exit. My eyes weren't good enough to notice that, and I stayed in the throttle. It gets a little off camber there, and the back-end came around.

The tank-slapper was one of two things. Not sure which. At least once, I missed a heel-toe blip and broke the rear end loose. The other time, I was more deliberate and know I didn't miss the heel-toe. On a third lap I didn't even try...just went back to the basics of straight-line braking and shifting before turn-in. Even then the backend was very squirmy. Once back in the paddock, I checked the rear brakes and the passenger e-brake adjuster was full tight. The drivers side had about 1/8th of a turn or so. I backed these off 2 1/2 turns for the final session, and the car was back to normal---No further looseness. Coincidence, dunno. Thoughts?


http://vimeo.com/25029776

What tires are you running? Sound like full tread or some street tire/track tire combo?

You turned it a little early, but you also corrected for it somewhat and I believe your spin in three was due to you pinching the turn on exit. The negative camber makes the car go into of four wheel drift at exit if you are doing it correctly. I think you got nervous and gave a little input to the left and induced the spin. Get use to dropping a tire in the dirt from time to time, even try to do it when you are practicing. That is a safe turn to drop a tire a ECR some are not, (turn 5,9). The sooner you learn that spins are bad and dropping a tire at exit is not the end of the world, you will have more confidence.

At 1 and 2 are you are trying to trail brake a turn that does not like trail braking. Full break in straight line and back on gas at turn in. Listen to your engine, you are off gas half way through the turn. Your car is upset because you have all the weight on the nose and are trying to get it to turn right then left very abruptly. I have tried that turn several different ways and the fastest way is flat on the gas at turn in and just steer your way through the undertsteer. Done correctly it is one of the best parts of the track.


Keep practicing, practice is cheap. Learning basics while racing is expensive. Now that you are solo, try to find some of the SM guys in Dallas/FortWorth to go out on track day with you. There are several that instruct at both ECR and MSRC. If you go to TWS there are usually 5 or 6 instrucors that race SM to hook up with. Just let the school know you would like a SM Pilot for and instructor and they will usually accomodate you.

[William Bonsell]

Enjoyed your video Tom...but short sleeves and shorts too boot? Would never be allowed at any DE I have done out here. I always wear full race gear whenever I am in the race car, even if doing a track day. You never know what can happen, right? Just something to think about.....

I have been looking for editing software for my GoPro HD....I have Windows 7 and Windows Movie Maker doesn't seem to cut it....what Sony Vegas system are you using.....Platinum 10 or Platinum Suite?

Bill-

[Tom Hampton]

Tires: Fusion ZRi 205/50R15s. So, yeah a full-tread street tire. I'm going to switch to nitto nt-01 as soon as these are used up. Looks like maybe another track day or two at most.

Turn 3: I completely agree with your analysis. That's exactly what the instructor said, at the time. The setup on the car (given the street tires) is a little loose. I talked to the setup guy and he recommended going up one notch on the front bar. I'm full-soft front and rear right now. So, in tight radius situations (MSRC mid-rattlesnake, and ECR 3, 6, 11) the backend tends to come around. It works okay, because it does help the car rotate. But, I did get caught out early in the day on saturday. The spin was early in session #2.

Turn 1: You are probably right. I haven't had a chance to download the data yet, and see what I was doing to the car. I don't think, those two laps were typical of my approach to the corner. I suppose only the data + video will say for sure. But, I feel like I had a much better approach in session 4. On most laps I was shifting back to third before I reached trackout from 2.


I feel like I improved a lot on these turns by the end of the day. Session 4 was very consistent from lap to lap...all within 2 tenths of 2:26.5 (except first and last laps). They were all so close that the predicted lap time was -0.0 right up to the start/finish. At least, I was consistent. I think I can build on that.

PS: Yeah, I do ask for SM pilots. This instructor drove a porche of some low-power variety. He made several comments about how those other high-horsepower cars "cheat" and get away with bad habits.

[Tom Hampton]

Enjoyed your video Tom...but short sleeves and shorts too boot? Would never be allowed at any DE I have done out here. I always wear full race gear whenever I am in the race car, even if doing a track day. You never know what can happen, right? Just something to think about.....

I have been looking for editing software for my GoPro HD....I have Windows 7 and Windows Movie Maker doesn't seem to cut it....what Sony Vegas system are you using.....Platinum 10 or Platinum Suite?

Bill-

Thanks, glad you liked it. Still much to learn about everything.

Shorts: It is standard practice out here during june-august DE days. Most instructors are likewise attired...although Brian yesterday was in jeans. Both schools I've been to actually encourage it due to the extreme heat. But, yes I completely agree...and, will soon be getting the suit and Hans. And a cool-shirt to fight the heat. I've prewired the car for the cooler, already. Even if for no other reason that to practice like I plan to play (get used to all the gear).

Video software: Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 11: http://www.sonycreat...m/moviestudiope

[Cy Peake]

Never seen that track before but your spin was a result of slow hands and giving up too soon. Try to countersteer the moment you even think it's about to slide. It'll become intuitive with more seat time and you'll start to catch small slides way before they turn into spins. You needed to get more wheel into the slide to save it. Don't be afraid to turn the wheel ALOT at a track like that with tons of runoff room. If you can't save it and the car goes in a strange direction at least you won't hit anything. Try not to lift while all this is happening or you'll move more weight away from the rear and promote the spin. Your instructor was calm (his hand never moved from his knee).

I was going to comment on the poor clothing prep but it's already been said. Get used to wearing full race gear. Nice lap timer!

[Tom Hampton]

Thanks. What you and mpr say makes sense. I just have to train the brain and hands that way. I actually had a number of small wiggles throughout the day that I WAS able to catch. The setup is a little loose, which is possibly a good training aid. As soon as I felt this was well more than that, i did lock it down. Next time I'll try harder to save it.

Yes, I have already considered that I probably lifted and lightened the rear end... should have kept my foot in it and turned into it.

No spins, prefer to drop wheels or go 4 off. Got it.

Thanks for the feedback... only way to learn!

Ps: g2x is working well. I like it.

[dstevens]

Off to a good start. You're going to loop it every now and again and as long as you aren't using the spins to test the limits you're OK. One of the first things they taught at race school was once you have spun you've lost control of the vehicle.

It is hot but get used to full gear, even if you have to do a cool suit right now. Are you at least in race shoes? I ask because if you aren't yet and learning heel/toe when you go to race shoes it's a different feeling. I think some put too much emphasis on heel/toe early in the stages. Brake in a straight line, turn in, apex, track out. They made sure I was comfortable doing that before we went heel/toe. Then I became a left foot braker from running shifters... The Sonoma Cup race is coming up. They always have foot cams in some of the favorites and road race ringers. Check out the different techniques including the combo heel/toe to left foot brake-clutch dance. Boris Said (don't know if he's in the race) in particular is quite the master.

[Tom Hampton]

Yes, piloti hightops. If I had the gear, id be running it. Will have it soon.


I did ask my instructor about using heel toe and trail brake. He said that absolutely i was ready to work on those. That it was refreshing to ride with someone who could control the car, take instruction, and make my own corrections. He said, he wasn't saying much because I was correcting my own mistakes.

He said much the same thing about the spin. That it you don't ever do it, you don't know where the limits are. Not that I want to spin, or am proud to have, and if I could have saved it I wish I would have. I will try harder next time!

The cool thing is that this random guy in Texas can post a video of his stupid moves, and guys around the country are willing to take the time to not only watch the video, but take the time to comment so that I can get better.

Very cool. Thanks guys.

[Jason J Ball]

Tom,

Do yourself a favor, get a set of RA-1's if you can get them. The nitto's may be close but they are no substitute for the real thing. A set of RA-1's will probably last you the rest of this season depending on how you progress. The site sponsors have really good packages of wheels and tires for $1000 shaved. I ran lap times in the 2:20 range with Falcon Azenies, but dropped to 2:13's with RA-1's. Which is still 4 seconds off the fast guys. Eagles was my very first track, was this with the Porsche Club? You are running a pretty conservative line through 4-5 and you a braking way too early. I try to stay mid track at full throttle all the way to the bottom of the hill then brake. Going out wide at the top of the hill just wastes time. The up hill will slow you. It will definitely take some confidence because the car gets real light as you crest the hill and its off camber. I've tried staying in 3rd going up the hill, and hit the rev limiter in 2nd before track out. Either way that section is tough to master. MPR22 is dead on for 1 & 2. Turn 3,6, and 11 are identical. Best advice I could give you is just keep your foot in it, the Miata really doesn't like a mid corner lift as it will spin easily. I still have to tell myself to keep my foot on the floor!

[Tom Hampton]

Jason-

Thanks. Since the RA1's seem impossible to find...I'm leaning towards the nittos. If I find some RA1s, coolness...otherwise.

Not with PCA, the track does its own event once per month. Hard to beat for $150.

4-5...yes, totally agree. I could tell that I was leaving a lot on the table through there. Even in the ZRi's I think I could take 4 flat, and probably didn't need to brake until the start of the left curbing for 5. But, I wasn't trying to push it. I'm still learning the car, tires, brakes, and track. By the end of the day I was beginning to feel confident, and consistent enough to think about trying some experiments. I didn't really try anything, but on the last couple of laps I began to think about what I might do different...with more time. My goal was to get to the point that I was consistent and had good visual markers for each corner.

[MPR22]

Jason-

Thanks. Since the RA1's seem impossible to find...I'm leaning towards the nittos. If I find some RA1s, coolness...otherwise.

Not with PCA, the track does its own event once per month. Hard to beat for $150.

4-5...yes, totally agree. I could tell that I was leaving a lot on the table through there. Even in the ZRi's I think I could take 4 flat, and probably didn't need to brake until the start of the left curbing for 5. But, I wasn't trying to push it. I'm still learning the car, tires, brakes, and track. By the end of the day I was beginning to feel confident, and consistent enough to think about trying some experiments. I didn't really try anything, but on the last couple of laps I began to think about what I might do different...with more time. My goal was to get to the point that I was consistent and had good visual markers for each corner.

RA-1s are available several places. I agree with Jason, start practicing on the RA-1s.

[Jason J Ball]

There are only 3 things I miss about Texas: Eagles Canyon, MSR Cresson, and TWS!

[Cy Peake]

^^You forgot the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders

[Todd Green]

Never seen that track before but your spin was a result of slow hands and giving up too soon.

I don't know that track either, but it looks like the spin started because you didn't track out all the way in the previous corner and thus pinched your entrance, causing you to have to put in more steering than needed. Not tracking out again, then finally not correcting as Cy and others mentioned sealed the deal.

WRT being consistent, until you are on pace I'd not focus on that. You'll just be reinforcing bad habits. Since you have data, I'd try to find someone who is fast in a SM that you trust to take your car out for a few laps and then see what they are doing differently than you and try to improve in those areas. Start working from track out backwards. In general, find the line that lets you get on the gas as early as possible, then maximize your entrance speed, then work on how late you can brake. Be mindful of how much speed the steering wheel scrubs in our low-powered cars, opening it as early as possible.

One suggestion for the vids would be to fade the audio in/out just like the video. It is the same process, just do it on the audio track(s). You might experiment by doing it at a different rate (time span) than the video or using a different waveform.

[Tom Hampton]

I don't know that track either, but it looks like the spin started because you didn't track out all the way in the previous corner and thus pinched your entrance, causing you to have to put in more steering than needed. Not tracking out again, then finally not correcting as Cy and others mentioned sealed the deal.

Yes, that's pretty much what the instructor said. The first apex needs to be offset in order to let the car track out. I clipped the apex pretty close which left me mid track, etc.

WRT being consistent, until you are on pace I'd not focus on that. You'll just be reinforcing bad habits.

Since you have data, I'd try to find someone who is fast in a SM that you trust to take your car out for a few laps and then see what they are doing differently than you and try to improve in those areas.

Hmmm... interesting. Now, my car is not in full sm trim. Most important difference is tires. But, i suppose that doesn't matter. That might be tricky at these instructed track sessions that I'm doing. But, I'm requesting an sm pilot for an instructor. So, i can always ask him/her to drive the car.

Start working from track out backwards. In general, find the line that lets you get on the gas as early as possible, then maximize your entrance speed, then work on how late you can brake. Be mindful of how much speed the steering wheel scrubs in our low-powered cars, opening it as early as possible.

I do pay attention to exactly what you are suggesting, but I'm sure I need to even more. I could be wrong, but I THINK part of my line differences are due to the lower traction ZRi tires I'm running. From the data i've gathered it seems like they have a little more than half of the grip of an sm tire. The highest average g I see is about 0.85.

Dunno. Maybe that just me blaming the tire instead of the nut behind the wheel.???

One suggestion for the vids would be to fade the audio in/out just like the video. It is the same process, just do it on the audio track(s). You might experiment by doing it at a different rate (time span) than the video or using a different waveform.

Thanks! I appreciate the video feedback!

Thanks for all the feedback, Todd.