Jump to content

Photo

Tony Stewart - Did he intend to do it?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
118 replies to this topic

#41
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts

 

If the MLB promoted clearing of the benches in all out brawls, do you think they would have culpability in a injury of little league player that allowed the same thing? Are the majors role models or are they not?

 

Ummm... No and Not. (I might start watching baseball however)


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#42
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts

 

This is why I admire NASA. They didn't have to mandate hans and they knew that it would probably drive away some competitors.

 

About five years after NASCAR mandated H&N devices. Wait, that would make NASCAR a positive example. That can't be right?!


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#43
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

No it does not matter. The proof in that is NASCAR immediately came out and changed their rules based on this even though it wasn't their event. NASCAR and USAC set the tone for how the lower tier sanctioning bodies behave. If the big boys act like morons, the little boys will too. Not only that, NASCAR and USAC have purposely left this behavior alone for the spectacle factor. The little guys are only emulating that behavior.

 

If the MLB promoted clearing of the benches in all out brawls, do you think they would have culpability in a injury of little league player that allowed the same thing? Are the majors role models or are they not? They need to be setting the examples and driving towards greater safety. That is supposed to be the unwritten benefit of the cutting edge of every sport. That 2nd tier levels are able to benefit from the good practices that were explored and implemented in higher levels where funding exists to implement new things. This is why I admire NASA. They didn't have to mandate hans and they knew that it would probably drive away some competitors. But they did it anyway because they saw it being implemented in higher levels of road racing and that is was categorically proven to save lives.

What proof ??

 

I think Robin said it best in the video "sometimes you get tapped on the shoulder"

 

Haven't you done something the same way for a while and someone gives you a tip and it's all "Oh ya, that makes sence, I should of done that way all along" ??

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#44
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

About five years after NASCAR mandated H&N devices. Wait, that would make NASCAR a positive example. That can't be right?!

That is the point!!!!! Yes it might have taken that long but some orginizations still don't mandate hans. Go karters are killed every year it seems from head and neck injuries. But what can prompt these lower levels to make the move is when the top levels mandate. At least we are talking about NASA taking 5 years to do something instead of talking about someone having to pay the ultimate price before it is looked at. And for that I am proud that NASA did that, regardless of the time it took. Way better than NASCARS response to this. Waiting for the inevitable before acting.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#45
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts

They should make motorcycle racers wear HANS devices too. Wait a minute, let me think about that one.


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#46
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

What proof ??

 

I think Robin said it best in the video "sometimes you get tapped on the shoulder"

 

Haven't you done something the same way for a while and someone gives you a tip and it's all "Oh ya, that makes sence, I should of done that way all along" ??

J~

The proof that NASCAR absoletly knows that this should have been done long ago is that they didn't even wait two weeks before changing their rule set. They knew that if anything happened between now and them changing the rules someone would be going to jail for gross negligence. If Robin said what you quoted then Robin has his head buried in the sand. Any driver here could tell you it is a bad bad idea to get out of a car with perfectly functioning safety devices in order to approach a race car on the track and express your displeasure with another driver. We didn't need a tap on the shoulder to say it was a bad idea to allow this. Anyone needing that in this scenario is a moron and shouldn't be allowed to compete in an event where you have to make split second quality judgements in order to be safe. They dont demonstrate the mental skills necessary to be deemed intelligent, competent, and safe.

 

Yes I have done stuff where I should have known all along it was wrong. But you and I both know that this isn't one of those times. You and I both know that NASCAR allowed this because driver confrontations are exciting to watch. And this has been the case with NASCAR since Yarborough and Allison went at it on the first nationally televised NASCAR event.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#47
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

I saw something on FB, maybe SafeRacer post.

Not sure if this was it, but this is interesting too.

http://www.jcs-group...ing/deaths.html

 

Remember the safer it get, the more boring it is, lets race at 25mph.

But I think were doing pretty well safety wise.

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#48
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

Actually S.A. , neck protection is now mandated in Moto GP. They have spent alot of money looking at new technologies to protect in inheritantly dangerous situations.

 

You sound like you would support helmets being optional.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#49
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

The proof that NASCAR absoletly knows that this should have been done long ago is that they didn't even wait two weeks before changing their rule set. They knew that if anything happened between now and them changing the rules someone would be going to jail for gross negligence. If Robin said what you quoted then Robin has his head buried in the sand. Any driver here could tell you it is a bad bad idea to get out of a car with perfectly functioning safety devices in order to approach a race car on the track and express your displeasure with another driver. We didn't need a tap on the shoulder to say it was a bad idea to allow this. Anyone needing that in this scenario is a moron and shouldn't be allowed to compete in an event where you have to make split second quality judgements in order to be safe. They dont demonstrate the mental skills necessary to be deemed intelligent, competent, and safe.

 

Yes I have done stuff where I should have known all along it was wrong. But you and I both know that this isn't one of those times. You and I both know that NASCAR allowed this because driver confrontations are exciting to watch. And this has been the case with NASCAR since Yarborough and Allison went at it on the first nationally televised NASCAR event.

 

Still no proof.  A death of a racer makes for a pretty good case to change things up pretty quickly, not a cover up of we knew it all along and didn't do anything.

 

So if you are in change of an org/co/etc and someone dies, you're falling on the sword huh??

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#50
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

Ok Johnny, that is what I am reccomending. Racing at 25 MPH. Don't be crass and obtuse now.

 

And that was my point. At regional racing levels we are safer than the big boys. We are doing a good job with a fraction of the budget. But then again we don't have spectators to please.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#51
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

Don't make me post the happy video again!!!, :)

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#52
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts

 

neck protection is now mandated in Moto GP. They have spent alot of money looking at new technologies to protect in inheritantly dangerous situations.

 

Now you're making things up. No such mandate in MotoGP, although they are actively researching safety solutions.

 

Be careful of unintended consequences.

 

PS: HANS don't work in Karting (that whole unintended thing ya know)

 

Oh, which NASCAR race was it that a driver was struck and killed after he/she got out of the car?


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#53
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

Johnny, take a pick on what you want them to be guilty of;

 

1. Guilty of being incompetent of running a racing orginization because they didn't know that it is very unsafe to get out of a car on a hot track and confront another car, or

2. Negligent in allowing unsafe behavior to go on unchallenged

 

Can I prove #2? Maybe not ( we will see with internal emails). But the alternative is lack of qualification to be in this business. An idiot that has no knowledge of racing could have told you that this shouldn't be allowed from a safety perspective. And you argue in bad faith. It is one thing to accept risks when you are pursueing your sport. It is another thing to take unessary risks in pursueing revenge in your sport. So your analogy of reducing racing to 25 MPH doesn't fly and was offered up in bad faith.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#54
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

S.A. No, you are making things up. Hans does work in karting. Ask the inventors and doctors. Hans works on crashes over 35 MPH, which karts get too much quicker than we do in our cars.

 

And Moto GP does have neck protection. Notice the new little bumps on the back of the suits that all drivers wear? And there are air cart. inside there suits that inflate after an accident in order to protect neck and spine. So even in a sport like motorcycle racing they are thinking about how to do these things.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#55
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

Guilty of what and who ?? Tony, the track, that safety guys.

 

This can't just be a learning moment, change the rules to make it safer and move on ??

 

Who went to jail when Earnhardt died.

No Hans, Open Face helmet,

Someone has to pay for that crime ??

J~


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#56
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

Here is a link for you S.A. about Marquez being alive today because of new safety features in their suits to prevent neck and spine injuries.

 

http://www.cycleworl...serious-injury/


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#57
Walter Vetter

Walter Vetter

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,230 posts

 

Notice the new little bumps on the back of the suits that all drivers wear?

 

Seriously Dude - do some research. The hump is an aero device.

 

RE karting: how does a HANS work with no shoulder belts? You may be thinking of the Leatt-Brace.

 

What does any of this have to do with your original contention that NASCAR is somehow to blame for an event they had no involvement with?


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#58
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

No Johnny, everytime something bad happens doesn't mean someone goes to jail. But when people know that something bad is bound to happen, and yet do nothing about it for spectator value then someone is guilty of negligence. And again there is a major difference in taking risks to compete and taking risks to extract revenge.

 

At the time of Dales accident, HANS was just being developed and it is understandable that people didn't adopt in mass. But the evidence for basilar skull fractures is too overwhelming to allow racing without HANS any more. Could you imagine any series allowing racing with roll cages and harneses any more? Well this equates to that in my opinion. Like I said, when someone from outside the sport can tell something is a bad idea to allow, then people inside being experts have no excuse for allowing.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#59
Jamz14

Jamz14

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,107 posts
  • Location:California

S.A. , you are correct the hump is an aero device. And the air cartridge?

 

And yes hans requires belts in order to work and the Leatt brace is the actual device and not hans. I was using hans generically in that instance. Like calling all copy machines Xerox machines. So I apologize for the technical errors in my examples. The spirit of the comments is not off though and Moto GP is mandating technologies for neck and spine protection.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#60
Johnny D

Johnny D

    Veteran Member

  • Moderators
  • 5,413 posts
  • Location:Fremont, CA
  • Region:San Francisco
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:88

I say "I don't know, what I don't know"

 

Please tell me who knew, that that was going to happen?

 

Sure, dangerous sport, death and all could, and happens less all the time from safety.

 

Just don't know what you want when you say "Guilty" I assume Tony already feels like Sh!t, would you?

J~,


2011 NASA Western Endurance Racing Championship E3 Champ
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users