53 replies to this topic

[Danny Steyn]

Ok, with all that's been said within both threads do we agree that the Whistler is a first order of checking and if a competitor does not agree with the results he may request the engine to be cc'ed. How about we drop all the can't do and have the engine cc'ed at the track by a capable person? Do we usually have a Spec Miata person at the track that is capable? Do we pay that person to cc the engine? Everyone put their cheater hats on and let's find a positive conclusion to cc'ing the engine at the track.

 

David - this is just ludicrous. To pull a head off every-time we go to tech is BS. Or if someone protests another driver on compression. None of us will go for this.

 

Use the Whistler. It is amazingly accurate when used properly. Use a well defined repeatable process. Do NOT let any of the drivers crew insert the whistler components of be actively involved with the test. If it whistle more than 0.1 over, then do it again, and if still over, box up the engine and send to KS paid by driver. 

[Bench Racer]

Ok, with all that's been said within both threads do we agree that the Whistler is a first order of checking and if a competitor does not agree with the results he may request the engine to be cc'ed.

 

 

How about we drop all the can't do and have the engine cc'ed at the track by a capable person? Do we usually have a Spec Miata person at the track that is capable? Do we pay that person to cc the engine? Everyone put their cheater hats on and let's find a positive conclusion to cc'ing the engine at the track.

Danny, you know the ol saying, measure twice and cut once, correct. Please read the first sentence of my post a second time and then please take the word ludicrous out of your latest post. You know damn well, if your engine blew over you'd be screaming bloody murder to have your engine cc'ed and calulated.

[john mueller]

Oh yeah... One more:

 

4) The Whistler is supplied with several spark plug adapters, 2 of which are the correct thread for a Miata.  One has the correct flat seat surface and crush washer, similar to our spark plugs.  The other has a tapered seat.  Guess what.... the tapered seat version reads 0.1 lower than the correct fitting.  Have I seen it used in tech sheds???  Absolutely!

 

I've never physically administered Whistler test myself...  Do these spark plug adapters have any identification on them?  Like a size or a part number?

[Dan Tiley]

I've never physically administered Whistler test myself...  Do these spark plug adapters have any identification on them?  Like a size or a part number?

 

No, but one looks just like the Miata spark plug... crush washer and all, and the other does not.  It just has a taper at the bottom of the thread, no crush washer. 

[Dan Tiley]

Ok, I lied... the correct Whistler plug in my kit has a "21" etched on it.  The incorrect plug that still threads in has a "25" on it.  Can anyone else confirm this in their Whistler kits?

[Chris70]

Yes. The correct plug is number 21.

Ademir

S.A.C. racing

[Todd Green]

So I gathered this was a new problem, but I was talking to another racer who's been in the Miata scene much longer than I and he pointed me to this thread:

 

http://specmiataclas...p?topic=1229.60

 

Seems that the whole whistler problem has been around for quite some time and the valve cover issue was suspected by Saul/Mark back in '09.  So why is it coming to a head (pun intended) just now?

 

Also in conversing with people they talked about cars blowing by them that had suspect engines.  So I dug around for compression to HP calculators on various sites and they all pretty much agreed that we're talking like 2 HP.  In my experience cars don't "blow by you like you are standing still" with 2 HP.  So are there yet more undiscovered "grey areas", or are the online calculators wrong?

[Bench Racer]

Steve Scheifler, your missed by the mid pack folks.   Yup, for those that don't know Steve, if a spade is a spade Steve called it a spade.

[High Chair]

Jim, your numbers above replicate almost exactly what Mike Rossini has found with his whistler. And it also reflects the low numbers that Jim Creighton has observed over the years when using the Whistler on our cars with the valve cover on.

 

The part that we should be focusing on, and what Charlie and Jim corroborate above is that the Whistler is a VERY ACCURATE REFLECTION OF COMPRESSION RATIO when done properly and with the valve cover off.

 

As far as I am concerned we should absolutely change the procedure specifically for our class to reflect that all future Whistler measurements need to be done with the valve cover off.

I think Danny is correct. I am no engine expert so I will leave the pros and cons of the whistler to them; however, if Jim's and the others numbers are correct we should be able to come up with a solution to compression ratios in pretty short order. I know Jeff had one of his cars whistle high and he is in the process of taking the engine apart to determine what happened. A few of us CFR SM folks along with Jeff at Autotechniks have pledged enough money to buy a whistler that will be used on all of our cars and can be used by the CFR/ FL regions if they would like. We will also make the whistler available to all SM drivers. Hopefully this will help get the horses back in the barn. We should have the whistler before the ARRC weekend. 

[Steve Scheifler]

...Yup, for those that don't know Steve, if a spade is a spade Steve called it a spade.

SPADE!

Amazing, or maybe not given what we've all seen before.

This was SETTLED years ago and covered multiple times. Heck, I posted this in a 2009 Whistler discussion...
"The valve cover is a big issue and it took only about three years to convince people."

As someone who has owned a Whistler longer than probably anyone here, including the pro builders, I can tell you that it is very accurate if used properly, and far more likely to be accurate than CCing in the hands of anything less than a very practiced and careful tester.

As for "cheating" the Whistler with bore and/or stroke, it is two different things. You aren't cheating the whistler, you are just breaking more rules. Whether you get the compression through the CC method or the Whistler, those are part of the equation that you provide, and you either measure them or accept them as correct to spec.

Don't let the cheaters convince you that the Whistler is bad!!! They know damn well the odds of getting CC'd are nil at almost any race other than the Runoffs, so eliminating the Whistler is giving them a free pass.

[Kyle Freiheit]

I borrowed Steve's Whistler(THANKS!) for a few weeks back in 2009 and got pretty good with it and other than extreme temps(hot motor or bone cold(below 40)) the whistler was very accurate. Based on Steve's directions I always took the valve cover off and I tested 2 motors I cc'd and probably 3 or 4 others for people in our region and based on the ones I cc'd the whistler was always right there. 

 

I wish they were cheaper so that every scca region could have one. Rent it out etc. 

 

Kyle

[Bench Racer]

I wish they were cheaper so that every scca region could have one. Rent it out etc. 

 

Kyle

Katech Whistler cost. $2,299.99 /50 Spec Miata members per region = $46.00 per member, 100 Spec Miat members = $23.00 per member. Loan to tech for all other classes in region. Teach tech how to correctly/repeatedaly use the Katech Whistler thereby improving our lately sad standing within the SCCA community.   Milwaukee, WI region, I'm in for $46.00. Oh crap, we need a procurer, teacher and caretaker of the Whistler. I'll find someone for the Milwaukee, WI region. I inserted Milwaukee, WI because there are a couple other Milwaukee cities in the U.S.

 

Ken, we would require a someone to organize this accross all divisions, are you a taker? Only asking.

 

David Dewhurst

SCCA member # 250772

[Caveman-kwebb99]

our region has a whistler It will be used next year, after several conversations with multiple people who will go un named, the consensus was the warts would get cleaned up via penicillin by next spring.  We had talked about asking for more whistiling beofre the end of this season but felt all it would do was hurt innocent good hearted people who did not ask for more compession and kill our fun factor.  

 

The season is now over, so hopefully we will all be on the same page in April and beyond

 

I agree with Dewy that SM folks shoudl just step forward and buy the whistlers for some key regions and expect those whistlers to be loaned to other near by regions as they put on races.  the only thing I think needs added to that is the regions whoudl then be required to use it x times per y amount of cars in the field or we all just wasted money.  

[Ron Alan]

Whistled my car after 4 years in service for the first time. It is an early 1.8. Valve cover on...8.6/8.7 on each. Valve cover off...9.0/9.1 on each. Feel very comfortable things were originally measured right! I'm sure a little carbon build up isnt hurting