52 replies to this topic

[Neil O]

If Mazda wants to get more involved with SM and keep it relevant going forward, what if:

 

SM5 (NC 06+) cars get a restrictor plate and rules get slight tweak to align with current SM rules.

 

Mazda writes a spec for cylinder heads and then takes applications and approves shops to “seal” SM motors to the spec.  Shops would be required to post a significant bond to be eligible to do the sealing and would forfeit the bond if ever found out of compliance.  Any shop found out of compliance (ever) would not be eligible for program.

 

SM [to include 2006+] must be sealed for Majors competition in 2015.  Regional cars have 2 years to obtain seal.

 

Mazda gets some people involved in tech.  A couple races a year Mazda shows up on race day unannounced and techs cars after the race (Top 3-5 and a couple random).  Serious penalties handed out for non-compliance.    

[john mueller]

SM5 is a perfect class on it's own and IMO should stay that way.

 

It's hard enough to attempt to find parity with cars that span 3 different models, 4 different engines, 2 major different aero packages, multiple different final drive ratios, 3 different suspension geometries.  Come to think of it how the hell did we get as close as we have?  We rock!!

 

 

 

(underlying tone: This shit ain't easy folks folks, less not make it harder)

[Mike Collins]

It could work....

 

NJMP Thunder Track Records

SM - 1:34.562

SM5 - 1:34.476

T4 (MX5) - 1:35.121

 

NJMP Lightning

SM - 1:17.511

SM5 - 1:16.762

 

Watkins Glen

SM - 2:15.507

SM5 - 2:16.997

 

Laguna (Runoffs, not track record)

SM - 1:45.081

T4 (MX5) 1:45.466

 

VIR

SM - 2:14.429

SM5 - 2:11.884

T4 (MX5) 2:16.309

 

just to give you a few examples.........

[Johnny D]

Did you want to leave them in their class (for now) but let them run with SM? or...

 

The SM guys would  about mixed class.

 

Could we tell that they were mixed in?  There's like 4 nation wide right ?

J~

[Mike Collins]

Did you want to leave them in their class (for now) but let them run with SM? or...

 

The SM guys would  about mixed class.

J~

 

They are coming...its a matter of when, not if....  Figure it out now, figure it out later....whatever....

[Caveman-kwebb99]

 

VIR

SM - 2:14.429

SM5 - 2:11.884

T4 (MX5) 2:16.309

 

just to give you a few examples.........

 

And this one is the one that stands out, as the SM5 drives away from the SM on he straight but is slower in the turns.  Why dont we let Honda civics in SM their tiimes are almost identicle at Mid ohio????

 

SM5 will be a good class if Mazda takes the wrong approach and seals the fate of the SM class. But plenty here want mazda to have the final say as per our poll, I sure hope Mazda has the purest of intentions... I have no idea what their adgenda would could or should be.

 

And no knock on collins for liking a class the SM% he was in on starting...

[Jim Drago]

It could work....
 
NJMP Thunder Track Records
SM - 1:34.562
SM5 - 1:34.476
T4 (MX5) - 1:35.121

NJMP Lightning
SM - 1:17.511
SM5 - 1:16.762
 
Watkins Glen
SM - 2:15.507
SM5 - 2:16.997
 
Laguna (Runoffs, not track record)
SM - 1:45.081
T4 (MX5) 1:45.466
 
VIR
SM - 2:14.429
SM5 - 2:11.884
T4 (MX5) 2:16.309
 
just to give you a few examples.........

First off I am glad this is my last year on the CRB... I will be long gone when this hits the CRB(again). I agree, many ( most not racing in sm ) want this to happen. The issue is not lap times. The cars will race very differently... slower in corners, faster in straights ( if we run similar lap times)

The cars share not one part with the 90-05, all they share is the MX5 badge and Mazda as car manufacturer. Bringing these cars in will be no different than bringing in a Honda Civic.

If we bring the MX5 in as an underdog.. like the 99 came "supposedly" came in. Well here is my concern.. Lets say we rewind to when they allowed the 99 in(2004? ).. Can you imagine if we brought a 2014 level of prep 99/00 in as they wrote the rules based on a 2004 level prep 99/00 car. IMO, that is where the SM5 and T4 cars are. They are 85% of what they will be within in 2-3 years of Sm competition. So even if brought in the MX5 as a big time underdog.. all it will take is one small adjustment forward( as MX5 guys will scream after allowed when they are 2 seconds off the pace and that is what they would need to be) and get a few front runners to start racing them> When that happens, all of a sudden we will have our current 1.6 scenario, but this time around it will be 90/05 cars being the 1.6 of the future.

We have seen this play out before. Bring as underdog.. once in the class, the same guys who just wanted a place to run and content with being an underdog will start asking for competition adjustments. Guess what, they will get them. The cars will get developed and before long.. it is SpecMX5 anyway as all the 05 down cars aren't competitive anymore. ( until the 15 comes in )

We are a minimum of five years out before even considering this IMO (if ever). I say this as we can completely sustain Sm now if we went 90-97 only. IMO, they should never merge the cars in.. When demand comes.. we will just switch to Sm5.. Not need to merge the classes. Let SM die a natural death and move to SM5 when the time is right.

[Mike Collins]

 

 

VIR

SM - 2:14.429

SM5 - 2:11.884

T4 (MX5) 2:16.309

 

just to give you a few examples.........

 

And this one is the one that stands out, as the SM5 drives away from the SM on he straight but is slower in the turns.  Why dont we let Honda civics in SM their tiimes are almost identicle at Mid ohio????

 

 

 

The T4 car has the stock exhaust manifold and both cats, the SM5 does not...so essentially the T4 is running as a restricted car....

 

I under stand Jim's point about development but I don't agree with it.  Everything in SM5 is sealed or spec'd.  You can choose your cage builder, driver comfort items, and brake pads....the rest is all the same and spec...not sure how much changing a seat will make you go faster unless you use special grease to install it or relieve the radius on the seat bottom

[RazerX]

If Mazda changes it's stance from long term revenue via a vibrant race culture to a short term cash need by quickening the end of the current SM class to motivate people to buy an MX5 there is your risk.  I believe that SM is a halo for Mazda and they don't make a lot of money if any on the parts.  I am guessing the support and prize money / teen challenge eat any profits from part sales if there are any.  Once a manufacturer becomes a ruling entity you can't stop the $$$ discussion.  I have sat on the boards of several companies and as soon as they miss a Q or year, the question is, where can we get more $$.  I want to reiterate, I love what Mazda has done for us and appreciate it.  I would say thank you by buying a new mazda car not putting them in challenging position.  I want their thoughts, advice and knowledge but i would save them the risk and leave them out of the votes.  If they vote wrong and anger the community they have WAY more to lose than any other path IMHO.

[Chris70]

Ok, besides just giving the track records  how about you tell us WHO holds it in each car ?

Ademir

S.A.C. racing

[Jim Drago]

I under stand Jim's point about development but I don't agree with it.  Everything in SM5 is sealed or spec'd.

I am saving this quote in the archives.. I have a feeling I will be needing it once a month in 3-4 years

[Tom Sager]

The MX5 is a dynamite T4 car.  

 

SM5 would probably get legs if made a national SCCA class and if Mazda made the contingency payout better than that of SM.

[Mike Collins]

Ok, besides just giving the track records  how about you tell us WHO holds it in each car ?

Ademir

S.A.C. racing

 

 

NJMP Thunder Track Records

SM - 1:34.562 - Marc Cefalo

SM5 - 1:34.476 - Nick Evancich

T4 (MX5) - 1:35.121 - Brian Price

 

NJMP Lightning

SM - 1:17.511 - Tosh Desai

SM5 - 1:16.762 - David Jacobs

 

Watkins Glen

SM - 2:15.507 - Andrew Carbonell

SM5 - 2:16.997 - Chris Windsor

 

Laguna (Runoffs, not track record)

SM - 1:45.081 - Mark Drennan

T4 (MX5) 1:45.466 - Daniel Bender

 

VIR

SM - 2:14.429 - Dillon Machavern

SM5 - 2:11.884 - Greg Obadia

T4 (MX5) 2:16.309 - Brian Price

[Mike Collins]

I had to go look them all up again...I did not write down names the first time, just the times....

[Waterboy]

VIR
SM - 2:14.429
SM5 - 2:11.884
T4 (MX5) 2:16.309

just to give you a few examples.........

And this one is the one that stands out, as the SM5 drives away from the SM on he straight but is slower in the .

Not much slower if at all in he turns. Faster on the straight hence the plate.

[Rob Burgoon]

First off I am glad this is my last year on the CRB... I will be long gone when this hits the CRB(again). I agree, many ( most not racing in sm ) want this to happen. The issue is not lap times. The cars will race very differently... slower in corners, faster in straights ( if we run similar lap times)The cars share not one part with the 90-05, all they share is the MX5 badge and Mazda as car manufacturer. Bringing these cars in will be no different than bringing in a Honda Civic.If we bring the MX5 in as an underdog.. like the 99 came "supposedly" came in. Well here is my concern.. Lets say we rewind to when they allowed the 99 in(2004? ).. Can you imagine if we brought a 2014 level of prep 99/00 in as they wrote the rules based on a 2004 level prep 99/00 car. IMO, that is where the SM5 and T4 cars are. They are 85% of what they will be within in 2-3 years of Sm competition. So even if brought in the MX5 as a big time underdog.. all it will take is one small adjustment forward( as MX5 guys will scream after allowed when they are 2 seconds off the pace and that is what they would need to be) and get a few front runners to start racing them> When that happens, all of a sudden we will have our current 1.6 scenario, but this time around it will be 90/05 cars being the 1.6 of the future.We have seen this play out before. Bring as underdog.. once in the class, the same guys who just wanted a place to run and content with being an underdog will start asking for competition adjustments. Guess what, they will get them. The cars will get developed and before long.. it is SpecMX5 anyway as all the 05 down cars aren't competitive anymore. ( until the 15 comes in )We are a minimum of five years out before even considering this IMO (if ever). I say this as we can completely sustain Sm now if we went 90-97 only. IMO, they should never merge the cars in.. When demand comes.. we will just switch to Sm5.. Not need to merge the classes. Let SM die a natural death and move to SM5 when the time is right.

Right on the money as always Jim. You might be happy you're leaving the CRB, but I'm sure not!

[Dickweed]

Title of the Thread is MOVING FORWARD.

 

Say goodnight to the NA

 

Hello NC

 

At least for the nationals   

[LarryKing]

All you high rollers can afford a NC car. Problem solved.

 

When in the past few years have we given a crap about what's good for the little guy.

[Keith Andrews]

I like the idea of racing a 06+ car in its own class. 

 

The idea of integrating the the 06+ cars to Spec Miata.

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

Albert Einstein

[Parity]

 

 The issue is not lap times. The cars will race very differently... slower in corners, faster in straights ( if we run similar lap times)

The cars share not one part with the 90-05, all they share is the MX5 badge and Mazda as car manufacturer. Bringing these cars in will be no different than bringing in a Honda Civic.

If we bring the MX5 in as an underdog.. like the 99 came "supposedly" came in. Well here is my concern.. Lets say we rewind to when they allowed the 99 in(2004? ).. Can you imagine if we brought a 2014 level of prep 99/00 in as they wrote the rules based on a 2004 level prep 99/00 car. IMO, that is where the SM5 and T4 cars are. They are 85% of what they will be within in 2-3 years of Sm competition. So even if brought in the MX5 as a big time underdog.. all it will take is one small adjustment forward( as MX5 guys will scream after allowed when they are 2 seconds off the pace and that is what they would need to be) and get a few front runners to start racing them> When that happens, all of a sudden we will have our current 1.6 scenario, but this time around it will be 90/05 cars being the 1.6 of the future.

 

 

I have to agree with this. Racing in NASA you compete with Hondas and Spec E30's with similar lap times but race very different. It can be very frustrating getting pulled on straights but being held up in the corners. I know numerous guys who run SCCA but will not run NASA for this reason. You hope the other driver realizes you're faster and lets you by but this obviously would not be the case if we ran in the same class.