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January 2017 Prelims

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#21
Dirk Johnson

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The crew is doing there part too, to be safe, right ? Like parking the vehicle(s) in front of the oncoming traffic protecting the crew.

 

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#22
Walter Vetter

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VIR mandates a code 35 (look it up) during fcy. For all the driver's meeting bitching when first implemented, the code 35 rule works.
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#23
Tom Sager

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It's a good idea to strengthen rules that protect worker safety.  It is awfully vague and subjective though as written.  Nobody wants to put workers at risk or be penalized or slow down more than competitors in front or behind. 

 

To me it would be a little less subjective if for a stationary yellow the rule included language such as: Drivers shall proceed through the caution area with the car under control (not sliding) and maintain all 4 wheels of the car on the racing surface.  For a waving yellow something similar but add that drivers must keep the car XX feet from disabled vehicles or safety vehicles. 


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#24
Peter Olivola

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One size does not fit all.  The differential between the slowest and fastest cornering speeds and how little speed drop it takes certain classes to be in control makes it impractical to try to implement a fixed speed.  

 

Certain cars need to maintain a minimum speed for effective cooling.  Even behind a pace car, there are problems for some classes.  Putting everyone behind a pace car is no guarantee as has been proven with enough examples to make even this problematic.

 

The burden is really on the drivers.  Failing that, it becomes the responsibility of the officials to penalize accordingly.  As written, the current GCR provides ample flexibility for stewards to do so if directed by leadership of the program.  Look at the most recent penalty guidelines.  Are they stringent enough?



#25
Rob Burgoon

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It's a good idea to strengthen rules that protect worker safety.  It is awfully vague and subjective though as written.  Nobody wants to put workers at risk or be penalized or slow down more than competitors in front or behind. 

 

To me it would be a little less subjective if for a stationary yellow the rule included language such as: Drivers shall proceed through the caution area with the car under control (not sliding) and maintain all 4 wheels of the car on the racing surface.  For a waving yellow something similar but add that drivers must keep the car XX feet from disabled vehicles or safety vehicles. 

 

That doesn't work well if there's any sort of surface condition.

 

Officials can't be trusted with the power to decide who slows down "enough".  They can barely figure out fault as it is, let alone any biases.

 

Workers are responsible for their own safety.  If they don't like the look of the situation, don't get out of the truck.  Call for FCC.

 

I can't say I've ever been happy to see a "heroic" tow.


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#26
Dirk Johnson

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Is this a subject that will be discussed/training at the convention ?

 

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#27
ner88

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I've witnessed the Code 35, personally its confusing and as a racer can't properly be controlled.

just talked to those at the recent 13hour race.......



#28
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Change the rule putting the yellow flag burden on the race group lead car. Don't slow down enough to meet situation issue, corner call in and race group lead driver gets black flag.

 

Need to start someplace because yellow flags as of today do not slow cars down. Nor will the new subjective yellow flag rules slow anyone down.  


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#29
Walter Vetter

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I ran the ECR in October at VIR that had two code 35 cautions with no issues/confusion.
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#30
davew

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A newbie driver may be on the verge of uncontrolability at 40 mph. While a national champion may be totally in control at 60mph. The rule that is written must also take into account rain conditions. Voytek or Danny in the rain, look vastly different than myself or most of you.

 

This pulled from the Midwestern Council rule book:

 

YELLOW:
Stationary – Take care, Danger, NO PASSING from the flag station until past the incident and in sight of the next manned clear flag station. Car must be under control. 
Waved – Take Great Care, Great Danger, BE PREPARED TO STOP, NO PASSING, from the flag station until past the incident and in sight of the next manned clear flag station. Car must be under control.
 
Note that no where in the above rule does it say slow down. Drasticly slowing can be as dangerous as not slowing at all.
 
What is not written is a description of "under control" means. This leaves room for interpitation by the corner workers, rescue personel etc. My opinion of under control would be: On the racing surface, not the curbs or grass, at least 10 feet from any vehicle (race car or safety vehicle), no sliding, no brake lockup. Absolutely no contact of any kind.
 
Also note the difference in where the yellow flag ends. There may be separate incedent farther down the road that from the drivers seat you are not aware of. The yellow flag should continue untill you can see a clear/green flag station and are past any portion of the incedent.
 
Just my 2 cents
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#31
Rob Burgoon

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Change the rule putting the yellow flag burden on the race group lead car. Don't slow down enough to meet situation issue, corner call in and race group lead driver gets black flag.

 

Need to start someplace because yellow flags as of today do not slow cars down. Nor will the new subjective yellow flag rules slow anyone down.  

 

Not much different than a full course caution if you only penalize the leader.  That will collect the field.


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#32
Bench Racer

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Not much different than a full course caution if you only penalize the leader.  That will collect the field.

Daw, think outside the box a bit. Maybe you can do an add on that I'm not smart enough to figure out. Discussing this yellow flag rule is brain storming/blue skying, correct. :bigsquaregrin:


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#33
Rob Burgoon

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Daw, think outside the box a bit. Maybe you can do an add on that I'm not smart enough to figure out. Discussing this yellow flag rule is brain storming/blue skying, correct. :bigsquaregrin:

 

Honestly the fairest and safest thing would be to treat it like oval track and go full course caution every time.

 

But I like what we have right now just fine, and am content to let the workers figure out how to stop getting hurt.


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#34
Ron Alan

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Maybe this is a region by region deal...but I dont think I've seen our local SCCA ever do a hot tow(hence..worker on track...double yellow).

 

NASA...all the time and there have been issues with speed/safety in the incident zone. And some have found out the hard way leaving your faith in the hands of NASA officials(by pushing the limit) isnt always the best choice!

 

Because as Jim stated...no one wants to slow down for fear of losing ground or being caught...how about this? Extend the no pass zone another corner? This way no one could use the yellow zone to gain an advantage by basically speeding faster than the car in front of them and making a pass as they clear the incident. This would encourage the lead car to "set the pace" without fear of being taken advantage of by over slowing?


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#35
Jeff Wasilko

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I ran the ECR in October at VIR that had two code 35 cautions with no issues/confusion.

 

At the 13 hour enduro a few weeks later, a car rear-ended another car exiting turn 10 during a code 35. First car saw the code and slowed down, 2nd car missed it and rear-ended them.



#36
Walter Vetter

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2nd car driven by wanker. Other sports beckon.
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#37
Danny Steyn

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2nd car driven by wanker. Other sports beckon.

 

I have been wheel to wheel with other drivers and completely missed a flag focussing on not hitting the guy next to me. Whether it is Yellow, or Code 35, it can happen


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#38
Tom Scheifler

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I have been wheel to wheel with other drivers and completely missed a flag focussing on not hitting the guy next to me. Whether it is Yellow, or Code 35, it can happen


Exactly. Seems like the current flagging system could be augmented with a (mandatory?) in-car alert/signal light that would be triggered in all cars by race officials. Bad idea?
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#39
FTodaro

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Anyone who is honest will admit they have missed a flag, during the heat of battle.

 

Especially a black flag. Once at VIR the flag station at the top of the hill is so far off the track you have turn your head an look for it. When I used to run PCA DE's we would intentionally throw a Red flag. I would warn them I might do just about anything to keep them on their toes. Also hard to see any flag in the rain.


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#40
Peter Olivola

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The cost of implementation at the Club Racing level is prohibitive.  Not just for competitors but race organizers will have to pass their costs on in increased entry fees.

 

Exactly. Seems like the current flagging system could be augmented with a (mandatory?) in-car alert/signal light that would be triggered in all cars by race officials. Bad idea?






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