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Seat mounting. You must be this tall to ride...
Posted by
davecarama
,
02-25-2011
·
2,058 views
Wow, Looking at the MazdaRacers.com thread on the latest fastrack mention about seats on sliders is intense! I am concerned because I have an appointment to have my seat installed on Monday (Couldn't be a better time to introduce more confusion, Thanks SCCA.) I wanted to have my Sparco Evo seat installed on Sparco mounts and sliders. But it is looking like that is not the acceptable method anymore. I really want to race in enduros. That is my goal/desire for racing. I want the multi driver change type of enduro. My thought is I could have any driver in this case, but with a fixed seat, that would limit who I can get into my car safely and comfortably.
The GCR said the following:
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece securely mounted. The back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral supdard 8855-1999, orFIA.Standard.8862-2009 or higher need not have the seat back attached tothe roll structure. Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop or its cross bracing may not be mounted to the stock runners unless they are the FIA homologated seats specified in an FIA homologated race car. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 or No. 40 (lateral, bottom,etc). Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place. Mounting structures for racing seats may attach to the floor, cage and or center tunnel. Seat mounting points forward of the main hoop, between the center line of the car and the driver’s side door bar and rearward of the front edge of the seat bottom are not considered cage attachment points in classes with limitations on the number of attachments. A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement. The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of 36 square inches and bepadded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in away that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
OK, OK, I looked up the FIA 12 and 40 and they are basically lists of FIA Homologated seats, my Sparco EVO is on that list. The mounting style mentioned is "Lateral" which I can only assume means side mount since that is the only mounting option for the seat. It actually does not have an option for a rear mount. I highlighted the most interesting part above in bold. That portion was replaced with the 3/1/11 fastrack saying:
Clarify 9.3.41 as follows: “Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop or its cross bracing may be mounted on runners only if they were part of the FIA homologated seat assembly specified in an FIA homologated race car.â€
On first read, it sounds like this new rule states that only FIA Homologated cars can have seats on sliders, and even then, only if they were homologated with such assemblies. OR does it say you can have a similar set-up as one that is in "AN" FIA homologated car? So if I look at the Ford SA200 (Homologated for group B World Rally in the 80's) and lets pretend just for argument's sake, the seat is on a slider and is up to date, then I can take that seat/slider and plop it in my car and be A-OK?
Oh, and the very first line says "The drivers seat shall be a one piece bucket type seat", then four lines down it says "Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place." What the hell?
The way that all reads to me, the word "Shall" is simply stating that it is an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT.
So as you can see, this GCR interpreting newbie is very confused and very frustrated, I decided to do some more web searching and found this little easter egg from the OG Racing web site:
Link to Sparco Seat Slider on OG Racing Web site
It clearly states:
So I called them to get clarification. The sales rep said he didn't see any stamps on the slider or packaging stating it was FIA, but got another person to clarify even more. They said:
Interesting enough, someone posted a Racetech setup, and EVERYTHING is stamped FIA (mounting hardware and all). He also mentioned that no slider can take the G rating needed to be FIA. He pointed out a 280kmh wreck and asked if we think a slider could withold that wreck... I think the better question is has my car ever hit 140mph, and the answer is a quick and loud no! (or perhaps a more appropriate I only wish!)
I have a hunch the Sparco guy is going to tell me that the slider is not going to be FIA, in which case, I will attempt a spiffy set-up like the racetech one that has multiple bolt hole options, we will attempt to set the seat up for enduros at a distance that works "good enough" for the taller and shorter guys, or we will have a "you must be exactly this tall to ride" sign on the driver's door.
Now, off to Piper to have a seat install conversation... Joy.
The GCR said the following:
9.3.41. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece securely mounted. The back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral supdard 8855-1999, orFIA.Standard.8862-2009 or higher need not have the seat back attached tothe roll structure. Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop or its cross bracing may not be mounted to the stock runners unless they are the FIA homologated seats specified in an FIA homologated race car. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 or No. 40 (lateral, bottom,etc). Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place. Mounting structures for racing seats may attach to the floor, cage and or center tunnel. Seat mounting points forward of the main hoop, between the center line of the car and the driver’s side door bar and rearward of the front edge of the seat bottom are not considered cage attachment points in classes with limitations on the number of attachments. A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement. The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of 36 square inches and bepadded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in away that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
OK, OK, I looked up the FIA 12 and 40 and they are basically lists of FIA Homologated seats, my Sparco EVO is on that list. The mounting style mentioned is "Lateral" which I can only assume means side mount since that is the only mounting option for the seat. It actually does not have an option for a rear mount. I highlighted the most interesting part above in bold. That portion was replaced with the 3/1/11 fastrack saying:
#4176 (CRB) Clarify 9.3.41
Clarify 9.3.41 as follows: “Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop or its cross bracing may be mounted on runners only if they were part of the FIA homologated seat assembly specified in an FIA homologated race car.â€
On first read, it sounds like this new rule states that only FIA Homologated cars can have seats on sliders, and even then, only if they were homologated with such assemblies. OR does it say you can have a similar set-up as one that is in "AN" FIA homologated car? So if I look at the Ford SA200 (Homologated for group B World Rally in the 80's) and lets pretend just for argument's sake, the seat is on a slider and is up to date, then I can take that seat/slider and plop it in my car and be A-OK?
Oh, and the very first line says "The drivers seat shall be a one piece bucket type seat", then four lines down it says "Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place." What the hell?
The way that all reads to me, the word "Shall" is simply stating that it is an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT.
So as you can see, this GCR interpreting newbie is very confused and very frustrated, I decided to do some more web searching and found this little easter egg from the OG Racing web site:
Link to Sparco Seat Slider on OG Racing Web site
It clearly states:
"Universal slider kit. Double locking. FIA homologated. Fits all bottom mounting Sparco seats or use in conjunction with a Sparco side-mount bracket".
So I called them to get clarification. The sales rep said he didn't see any stamps on the slider or packaging stating it was FIA, but got another person to clarify even more. They said:
"When the FIA tests a manufacturer's seats, they test the seats and all available mounting equipment from that manufacturer. The FIA stamp on the seat covers the seat as well as the associated mounting equipment available from that manufacturer for that seat. The stamp, shows up on the seat, not the hardware."
Interesting enough, someone posted a Racetech setup, and EVERYTHING is stamped FIA (mounting hardware and all). He also mentioned that no slider can take the G rating needed to be FIA. He pointed out a 280kmh wreck and asked if we think a slider could withold that wreck... I think the better question is has my car ever hit 140mph, and the answer is a quick and loud no! (or perhaps a more appropriate I only wish!)
I have a hunch the Sparco guy is going to tell me that the slider is not going to be FIA, in which case, I will attempt a spiffy set-up like the racetech one that has multiple bolt hole options, we will attempt to set the seat up for enduros at a distance that works "good enough" for the taller and shorter guys, or we will have a "you must be exactly this tall to ride" sign on the driver's door.
Now, off to Piper to have a seat install conversation... Joy.
Wow OG and wow Sparco for stepping up and assisting so quickly! I have a hunch that the FIA might take a LONG time to produce the documentation though.
Of course, I'll pass on any info I get from them.
(Edit... I think Italy is the location of Sparco World HQ and where the FIA certs live)