The #1 On-track Adjustment for Driver Improvement is...?
#1
Posted 12-27-2010 06:16 PM
What is the number 1 on track adjustment a newer driver can make to improve times.....is it throttle induced oversteer, later apexing, trail braking, and so forth. Going faster can be a information overload for many of us newer guys. I would love to hear from those who have been successful in lowering their times just on the driving techniques. I know I could spend a ton of money going to school after school to learn a lot of this, but again, that is a financial obstacle for many of us. And I hope those who have spent the money to improve their driving, will not be offended because I am throwing this out essentially for free instruction, even if on-line. Maybe you have a specific on track event at a particular corner where something just seemed to click resulting in consistently lower track times. I want to concentrate on really one discipline, which when applied correctly during a 30 minute sprint race, can achieve significant results.
I just thought this would be a nice little topic those really successful drivers would like to pontificate about and that us slower guys would find really valuable. And I am hopeful these adjustments will work on any track so please don't be track specific. And please, those guys who know me, refrain from suggesting that the key to me dropping lap times is loosing weight.....as my grandson would say..."I know dat"!
Happy New Year......
Bill
#2
Posted 12-27-2010 09:24 PM
Numero Uno is probably max adhesion from entry to exit, which most of the drivers I see are not using. Some, not even close!
I'm trying to be cryptic on purpose. Will give more detail to those who PM or approach me with a beer in the Paddock.
There are some really good parts of books out there on the subject. Just need to put it all together.
-bw
- Johnny D likes this
I have an opinion so I must be right
#3
Posted 12-28-2010 03:44 AM
#4
Posted 12-28-2010 10:39 AM
#5
Posted 12-28-2010 11:23 AM
So what does a 6-pack get me Bruce? I'll try and pm u if I can....would like further elaboration on "maximum adhesion"IMHO, no school I've ever been to will teach the good stuff because driving 10/10ths of a cars potential is well -- tricky and kind of dangerous.
Numero Uno is probably max adhesion from entry to exit, which most of the drivers I see are not using. Some, not even close!
I'm trying to be cryptic on purpose. Will give more detail to those who PM or approach me with a beer in the Paddock.
There are some really good parts of books out there on the subject. Just need to put it all together.
-bw
#6
Posted 12-28-2010 11:38 AM
And I am not talking the right hand passenger seat instructor (although that CAN help a little). I'd say a good data acquisition system and someone to translate the data into english and give you input on how you can improve (and maybe set "control group" laps in your car for you to compare to). That would be the best way to improve, be it car set-up or driving style.
All pro athletes have a coach, I don't see why anyone driving wouldn't think that could be some help. It is even mentioned in the last Grassroots Motorsports mag.
In know that in the Washington DC area there are LOADS of "teams", King Rat, RP Performance, Meathead, Windsor, etc... find one, attach yourself to them, volunteer your time, make friends, and they will give you pointers and make you faster.
Hope that helps!
#7
Posted 12-28-2010 12:48 PM
Like Dave says search out someone from one of the top teams and make friends. That is how it's done!
-bw
I have an opinion so I must be right
#8
Posted 12-28-2010 01:59 PM
Brake less, gas more.
Be on one, brake/gas, but don't be on nothing coasting.
J~
#9
Posted 12-28-2010 02:01 PM
http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0837602262
Dave
- Johnny D likes this
#10
Posted 12-28-2010 04:05 PM
#11
Posted 12-28-2010 04:57 PM
I also find that sim racing keeps my mind sharp and using some of the available internet programs that can link with iRacing you can really see what technique goes into a fast last.
James York
sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA
powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN
2003 Spec Miata
#03
#12
Posted 12-28-2010 06:40 PM
Bill, trail braking is important but I would guess it is not the most important thing you should work on. Jackie Stewart said the last thing he learned how to do right was taking his foot off the brake. He was probably referring to both trail braking and the optimal way to release the brake so you don't upset the balance of the car. But I can guarantee you that Jackie Stewart was a prodigious driver long before he learned how to trail brake correctly.
As you continue your quest for knowledge, you might want to study up on slip angle and how truly good drivers learn to instinctively stay within the very narrow range of optimal slip angle. Hint, optimal slip angle for SM with Toyo tires is quite a bit more than a typical formula car or sports racer.
-bw
I have an opinion so I must be right
#13
Posted 12-28-2010 06:58 PM
J~
#14
Posted 12-28-2010 07:13 PM
Do a lead/follow with Bruce and have him look at your data. When you are braking, getting back on the gas and what the corner speeds are. Reading about race craft is good for groking the basics but for the best results I think you need someone looking at your lines during the race, data and car cam. That will get you developed faster than you having a go of it on your own.
Are you doing your own set up? If you can find someone to put a solid baseline on it and then train so you can replicate that on your own. You're probably going to want to drop a couple/few seconds before you start to work on the car too much. See if someone with more experience will take your car out for a shakedown to make sure nothing is wrong with your basic set up. With a good baseline, some seat time and confidence in the car your times will start to drop.
#15
Posted 12-28-2010 07:16 PM
Bruce, we haven't got you your beer yet but I'm listening. : )
J~
LOL, I've given you guys all I know. Like keith said everything else is just details. There are books that cover these topics, and don't ask me which ones, because I'll say most of them
Okay, I should point out one more thing. Trail braking IS related to maximum adhesion from entry to exit. I was just saying that max adhesion is the ultimate goal and thus most important. Okay now that I've confused everyone, just know it will all make sense once the beer is in the bloodstream
-bw
I have an opinion so I must be right
#16
Posted 12-28-2010 07:22 PM
How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~
#17
Posted 12-28-2010 07:45 PM
Doh... had him talking and I opened my big mouth.
How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~
That's a hard one. I've always believed in having the best equipment and never bought into the wait until you're a better driver idea.
So I say if you're serious about racing SM, get a good alignment first, then data, then get a motor that is within 4hp of the top cars.
I still don't own an enclosed trailer, waiting until I'm a better driver
-bw
I have an opinion so I must be right
#18
Posted 12-28-2010 08:16 PM
I always remember the saying practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice makes perfect... meaning practicing it wrong over and over may actually be worse then not practicing at all.
EXACTLY what I wanted to say... but couldn't get the words out.
Both a coach and an HPDE instructor could help with "perfect practice" but you need to listen to what they are saying. I can't tell you how many times I try to dial out bad learnings from a student only to be flat out ignored. Some of those students FEEL like they are going fast, but unfortunately are not going fast at all with their bad form and horrid line.
HPDE instructor for the on track perfect practice when you decide to continue with HPDE. You can adjust specific turns in real time.
Team Coach for racing. Every lap, every turn can be compared to past data. Eventually, you can build your virtual "perfect lap" by compiling turn by turn, and then keep trying to replicate it in your practice sessions and races.
Books can only teach you so much. I can't tell you how many people I have instructed who thought they were heel toe down shifting, but were really screwing up their laps (not to mention putting me in danger).
Simulators can help get acquainted with a track, but nothing beats the actual G forces in breaking, accelerating, turning, and altitude changes on track.
All of these together... well, that is just obsessive compulsive
Dave
#19
Posted 12-28-2010 08:40 PM
[/quote]
Once per lap.. Should be every corner every lap.
Try to keep the car bound up as little as possible, big oversteer is slow and big understeer is slower.
#20
Posted 12-28-2010 08:49 PM
Doh... had him talking and I opened my big mouth.
How about what's the biggest thing you wouldn't spend your money/time on or at least until you got better.
J~
I wouldn't spend too much money on motor right off the bat. I'd go with solid and reliable. Breaking down constantly or spending all your money under the hood instead of at registration will both cost you lots of time in the seat and lots of time with friends and family. Chances are, there is lots of time to be shaved off your laps that has nothing whatsoever to do with the motor, tires or setup, if you have a decent motor and setup.
What Bruce said about perfect practice makes perfect is a golden piece of advice. In the short time he was kind enough to spend with me, I learned very quickly that places I thought I was slow, I was fairly solid. Places I thought I was doing great, were COMPLETELY wrong. Not knowing what I was actually doing right and wrong, I tried to fix things the wrong way, and it made things worse. I was gradually getting faster, but more because I got better at holding on to a very angry, nearly out-of-control car.
There was not one thing to fix. There were actually several and they were different in different corners. Having someone knowledgeable observe what I was doing, explaining why that doesn't work, paying attention and heeding that advice allowed the light bulb to come on. Low and behold, I went much faster, with much less drama, and it had nothing to do with a faster motor or better suspension setup. I think I'm nearing the point where I could appreciate faster motor and better setup, but if I had to do it over again, that sure as hell wouldn't be where I focused my time and money right off the bat.
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