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Can Spec Miatas run Hoosiers in road racing?

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#1
Flyntgr

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I have heard that in SCCA Regional races in some regions, you can run any spec sized tires you want (205/50R15), including SM Hoosiers, in Regional races. If so, in which regions have you raced SM Hoosier tires in SM class?

In National SCCA races, what class would a legal SM be in if running SM Hoosiers? I am guessing ITA, but don't know for sure.

I tell you what: I ran a few laps on some SM Hoosiers, and I can't see why Hoosiers aren't the official SCCA SM tire! They are so much better than the TOYOs it hurts! Control is much better, and the price is about the same if you shop and buy. (SW Hoosier) The grip is awesome and they last much longer than TOYOs from all reports I have been getting. If everyone ran Hoosiers we would all enjoy the control (and apparently save money).

#2
dmathias

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GreatLakes regionals are open (DOT) tire.

IT is not a national class.

FWIW, at last weekend's IT-SPECtacular at Mid-O, the winner Saturday was on Toyos. He was also about 1/2 sec/lap faster than most of the Hoosier shod cars.

I'll tell you what, my personal half-assed opinion - Hoosiers feel great - until they don't. My experience with Toyos is that they don't drop-off as dramatically. YMMV

Who knows what the spec tire will be next year, but I hope it's the same for SCCA and NASA, THAT would save money!
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#3
FTodaro

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I qualified and raced last Saturday at Mid Ohio on a set of Hoosiers that only had 5 HC on them I used them to qualify on Sunday and then Sunday I ran the toyo this was not even a balled set they were 4/32 set with about 6 HC on them and I turned my fastest lap ever on the pro course with them about 1/2 second faster than the Hoosiers.

I know everyone says the Hoosier is faster, but they also go away during the race at a faster rate. I was able to turn better times with the toyo.

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#4
Qik Nip

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I ran SM6 Hoosiers at the ITA Spec*tacular last weekend at Mid Ohio. On Saturday race (with 13 heat cycles to start) I ran third to P1 and P2 both of whom were on Toyo RA1's. I ran the same set of Hoosiers Sunday in the 8 lap qualifing race and finished P2 and turned the fastest lap of 34 SM's (go figure). Given that outcome I ran those same SM6's in the race on Sunday (now 15 cycles on them at the start) and took P1 after the first turn and held it to the finish ... However, the car on RA1's and who was P1 Saturday (and finished P2 Sunday), was running me down by a tenth or more almost every lap. (Fortunately for me he got shuffled to P4 or 5 at the start)

Long story short .. At Mid Ohio I think a mid to late life RA1 is faster. The Hoosier is wicked quick there from HC #2 through about #4. from then on, they slow down a bit. Alternatively, the RA1 seems to gain after HC 6 or so.
Rick

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#5
Brian Linn

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In National SCCA races, what class would a legal SM be in if running SM Hoosiers? I am guessing ITA, but don't know for sure.

STU is the only class I can think of. As stated above, IT is regional only.
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#6
fishguyaz

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Long story short . The Hoosier is wicked quick there from HC #2 through about #4. from then on, they slow down a bit. Alternatively, the RA1 seems to gain after HC 6 or so.
Rick


as I see it this is at the heart of choosing which tire to have for our spec tire.
I run a CF in another group that has a spec hard compound tire for the series . the tire has similar characteristics to this description of the Hoosier above.
basically what this means is that if you want to run upfront with the fast guys, and are capable of doing so, you MUST have a fresh set of tires at some point during the weekend. with that group its not a big problem because the tire we use is $400/set.

all the SM tires I know of are ~ $700/set.
at that price they should be a longer lasting tire rather than a short lived high performer
.

what is good for the racers wallet is good for the SM class as a whole. that does seem to be the way i have seen recent rules changes going, so i have faith in whoever is making the choice that they understand tires are the one of the biggest cost for us racers and will do the right thing for us.
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#7
Jim Drago

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One thing few in this thread are considering is Mid Ohio is pretty much a one off track in terms of set up and tires for SM. Bald toyos have always been fast there. I don't think tire data from Mid ohio holds up well compared to all the other tracks we go to. It is much more the exception than the rule IMO
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#8
Motor City Hamilton

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Feel, feel, feel. I want to see lap times. I ran a set of 20 run Hoosier SM6 at Grattan two weeks ago followed by a brand new heat cycled set. 0.3 seconds faster on the new set. I am getting 15 to 20 fast runs on my Hoosiers. On Toyos, everyone talks about an old worn out set, meaning right before they cord. If you start at 3/32, they don't come in until around 1/32. So skip the ten sessions of break in, shave them to 1/32 and run the Toyo for their six fast heat cycles. For my money, 6 to 8 fast Toyo heat cycles or 15 to 20 on the Hoosier SM6, I'll take the Hoosiers.

Now for the national guys racing at run offs, of course everyone is on fresh rubber. I'm talking about racing regionals and getting the best value for the money. See you guys at Mid Ohio on Labor Day weekend on a new set of SM6. Then I'll be back again in October on that same set with 15 to 20 runs on them. Bet my lap times are similar.

Plus, I tend to see just as fast of laps near the end of the race as I do the beginning. With any tire, the less you slide them around, the longer they are going to grip through the full run.

#9
Qik Nip

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One thing few in this thread are considering is Mid Ohio is pretty much a one off track in terms of set up and tires for SM. Bald toyos have always been fast there. I don't think tire data from Mid ohio holds up well compared to all the other tracks we go to. It is much more the exception than the rule IMO
Jim



Jim is absolutely correct. I probably should have made my point of really old Toyos being fastest even more explicit as a Mid Ohio related comment. That said, I continue to hear folks say that the SM6 is fastest when freshly heat cycled. I'd like to head if that observation is valid.
Rick

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#10
dmathias

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Doesn't EVERY track have it's own set-up issues?

Just trying to get Jim D's and MCH's point. Do you want Hoosiers for spec tire?

I really don't have a preferrence - I like cheap and long usable life.

I do FEEL that Toyo give a little more warning before they spit you off track compared to Hoosiers, which seem to let go without so much as a squeak.
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#11
Den

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Jim,

How long before the SCCA makes the spec tire announcement?

Den

#12
Motor City Hamilton

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Doesn't EVERY track have it's own set-up issues?

Just trying to get Jim D's and MCH's point. Do you want Hoosiers for spec tire?

I really don't have a preferrence - I like cheap and long usable life.

I do FEEL that Toyo give a little more warning before they spit you off track compared to Hoosiers, which seem to let go without so much as a squeak.


I am 100% in support of a Continental Tire similar to the SM6.

Denny, not sure what you mean about they grip until they don't? Do you mean that you've experienced after a number of heat cycles they just let go? I have not experienced that. Mine don't "let go" unless I cord them. If you mean that they don't give you as much feedback (a talking tire is a happy tire, but a screaming tire means trouble) the Toyos do talk more before sreaming. My experience with the Hoosier is that they hold their grip closer to the edge, but give you less warning that you are about to step over the line. But if this is the measuring stick, run 8/32 Toyos - they'll talk alot.

#13
Flyntgr

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I agree MCH. I do like the Hoosiers! Wish I could run them every race in SM.

#14
dstevens

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It's my understanding that Hoosier makes all the Continental branded race tires. Word from Indy Lights is that a Hoosier built Continental branded tire will be used starting next year.

#15
Keith Novak

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It's my understanding that Hoosier makes all the Continental branded race tires. Word from Indy Lights is that a Hoosier built Continental branded tire will be used starting next year.


If that's the case, I definately need to find somewhere that will look the other way while I spend a day with my collection of leftover RA1s and 888s driving sideways until I come home with several sets of cords and a s*** eating grin.
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#16
Flyntgr

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It's my understanding that Hoosier makes all the Continental branded race tires. Word from Indy Lights is that a Hoosier built Continental branded tire will be used starting next year.


Do you hear whether the tires will be Hoosier SMs re-branded to Continental, or whether the Continental tires will be different animals?

#17
dstevens

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The Indycar Indy Lights series will be using them next year, not SM. A similar deal to what they do in the sports car series now. AFAIK Hoosier produces all the Continental race tires under contract.

#18
davecarama

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The Indycar Indy Lights series will be using them next year, not SM. A similar deal to what they do in the sports car series now. AFAIK Hoosier produces all the Continental race tires under contract.


Correct. All of the conti race tires are rebranded Hoosier tires. They even send Hoosier trucks rewrapped as conti trucks for support... and send the hoosier reps to service and mount the tires.
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#19
davecarama

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I mounted my sticker SM6 tires in March for the spring double WDCR comp licensing school. I've used these tires for the Fri/Sat/Sun school, ITA MARRS1, Summit point Regional Class at the National Event, NASA Hyperfest Time Trials TTE, ITA MARRS5, Friday at the Track on Shenandoah, and more I am just not remembering right now... At MARRS 5 I did my fastest times to date (in qualifying). I am not getting much of a time drop (unless I am getting that much better that I am able to compensate for the drop in performance).

I will be using the same tires at next Friday's FATT and that same weekend's NASA TT, as well as the WDCR-MARRS SCCA Labor Day double. They are about done with their life, in fact, I'd be surprised if they don't cord them next weekend.


I am not claiming to be fast, but you asked for lap times...
http://www.mylaps.co...iles/?id=119974

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#20
Flyntgr

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Yipeee. Hoosiers for SMs in 2012!!! :)




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