14 replies to this topic

[Team Cochran]

The last Conference race weekend on August 14th here in Portland had about 22 SMs.

Oregon region SCCA has cancelled their ORP race two years in a row. IMHO ORP is head and shoulders above all other tracks in Oregon and Washington for most fun to drive

Now this BS from SCCA... Hoosier Named Tire for National Spec Miata Competition Beginning in 2012

[Terrell Garrett]

Geoff,

That's not the whole story. When I started this 3 years ago I blew my diff at the end of day 1 of school and thought that was it. Ken, Will, Bruce, etc. said "No, you are a Miata guy now", loaned me a diff and showed me how to put it in. They put up with my 1:52 lap times and never said anything bad. Will put up with me causing him to lose a race to Joey and didn't get mad at me. They helped me, Randy, and Keith fix our cars and get out on track. We had barbeques and had fun. We gave each other crap on the forum and laughed about it.

It seems now there is a major argument each race. People are pissed if a newbie is slow and have even had them removed from the class. In short, if you can't run with the fast guys from day one there isn't a lot of help out there to get you up to speed. It seems to have evolved into a situation where it is no longer a come one, come all game. Rather, it is a heated contest between a shrinking group of participants.

Having raced both Conference and SCCA this year I have to say that the general attitude at Conference is more relaxed and they are much more welcoming than SCCA. Granted, each group has one or two over zealous idiots that try to win the race in turn 1 and invariably hit someone. SCCA is becoming more of an elitist group and because of that entries are shrinking to the point that soon SM will no longer have its own class. At SCCA the ship is sailing and we aren't even packed yet. Conference drivers exhibit a broad range of speed and ability. It is fun to work your way through the slow cars while lapping them (not to say that I lap many people but when it happens it is fun). It is fun to be not screaming fast and actually have somebody to race with so you can get better.

I am going to continue to race SCCA for now and throw in the Portland Conference races for fun. When the entry list gets down to 6 cars leaving me running low 1:33's all alone with nobody behind me I'll jump the fence. I hope this doesn't happen and that as a group we return to the welcoming, nice group we used to be.

As far as the tires go I just ordered another set of RA1's to finish the season on. Crap!

Terrell

[Jim Boemler]

It's sad to hear folks talking like this. I started racing the first year SM was legal in the NW, and my experience of SCCA racers has always been the helpful way you describe, Terrell. In the SM class I credit Ken with setting that attitude, but at my first school I had a whole raft of vintage racers help me get my car fixed between sessions, and I've seen that sort of thing happen year after year. My few experiences with IRDC ("Conference") have not been as pleasant overall, but I certainly don't hesitate to run with them.

I'll probably be out regardless, but the move to Hoosiers will pretty much kill the idea of driving the car to and from the track. A number of us used to do that, and it's still a viable method for a budget racer -- until you can no longer use your race tires for the commute. I don't fault SCCA for making the choice, 'cause my way of racing is a minority by a long shot. But it's just another nail in my racing coffin. If I can keep the car through next year, the only place I'll be able to race will be with IRDC. I'll really miss SCCA.

Then again, I fully expect IRDC to follow SCCA, so drivers can cross over.

[Jim Boemler]

Dave Wheeler makes a good point in the other thread, about this being a National rule. So for the PNW, it would be at least possible to allow the RA1 in Regional races. Unlike the RA1/R888 combination, it wouldn't be fair to allow either tire, though. Is there any interest in a move to make RA1 (or maybe R888 as well) the only tire for Regional SM in OR/NWR?

[Team Cochran]

LMAO, yeah I'm sure the guys that buy the Hoosier's won't have a problem saying, yes if you wanna use the Toyo in regional go for it! The toyo is significantly slower...

IMHO, if conference has any brains they will ignore the Hoosier and stick with the Toyos.

[William Bonsell]

I think my opinions regarding racing bang for the buck are known. I like big grids regardless of which sanctioning body provides it. Last weeks Conference race at Portland was extremely well attended. I think in Group 2 their were 24 Miatas running anywhere from high 31's to 37's....I finally broke into the 34's and was tickled pink. I don't have a problem purchasing a set of Hoosiers - seem to be a great tire and a bit faster, but that being said, I have some pretty new Toyos's and fully expect to be able to use them up in 2012 both in Conference and SCCA. Perhaps it is time for both organizations to just do an open tire in Spec Miata. I know many SCCA regions do just that.

I'd also like to issue a challenge to my SCCA friends to consider running Cascades 8 Hour enduro in October at Portland.

Bill

[Terrell Garrett]

Bill,

Already considered it. Fortunately, I will be chasing my first love which is bull elk in Hell's Canyon that weekend. Otherwise I would already have a team together consisted of my best friend Matt, Keith, and Randy. Other than Matt, these are the guys that I grew up with and trust. Our fictional team probably wouldn't win, but we would have fun which is the point I think SCCA is missing.

[Terrell Garrett]

On another note, last weekend I got a 1:32.6 which was my best time by 1/2 a second. Thanks Pat McFall.

Terrell

[Bruce Wilson]

Hey guys. There are lots of options on the tires for regional races and I'm sure we'll be discussing that soon.

BTW, 27 drivers at the Rose Cup races and pretty good overall turnout for SCCA this year

-bw

[William Bonsell]

Bruce....

I loved doing Rose Cup as it was my first Rose Cup and an event I deemed worthy of spending a considerable amount of money to make happen. And the turnout for the Festival Race was great and I even had a few people to race even running my times. But, that event
certainly was not indicative of the Group1/11 turnouts this year at Portland, and I am sad to say that with where I am on time, I would be a lonely soul out there doing laps. I do think this presents a problem for those of us who have neither the money nor the talent nor the desire
to become one of the elite with Oregon SM. And I think this really has more to do with the size of the grids. You can always have some fun in a 40 car grid...even if you qualified 31st.......I truly think the fun factor (at least for most of us) goes up as the grid sizes go up. In two years of racing now, that is definitely how I see it. More cars....more racing fun - Now if I was one of the guys running 31's, I might feel differently.

Bill

[Bruce Wilson]

Bill, I get it that some like racing with mixed groups and some don't. Regardless, SCCA, which is holding 11 regional races vs. conference's 3? regular (not enduro) races at Portland, will have some races with smaller fields but overall has done very well in 2011. We started the year with a field of 18 vs. 15 SM at Conference opener, peaked at 27 vs. 22 at Conference August race. I keep hearing conference has bigger fields but that's just not true unless we're counting the other class cars in Group 2.

Yes, you may end up running by yourself in the SM only group, but at the same time we're not racing with cars that constantly re-pass you on the straights, just to park it in the corner lap after lap, which is frustrating for some folks. There are ways to get those laptimes down, just ask the "not-yet-elite" Brian, Terrell, Keith, Eric, Brandon, Spence, etc... Their quests for better laptimes seem to going pretty damn well this year

-bw

[Kyle Keenan]

Bill, i've got some video i'd gladly share with you. Granted, i'm not close to being the greatest driver, but I got a pretty good session by myself with a ton of clean laps.

[William Bonsell]

Bill, i've got some video i'd gladly share with you. Granted, i'm not close to being the greatest driver, but I got a pretty good session by myself with a ton of clean laps.

Kyle...

I'm always watching video, so please link some to my facebook if you'd like or email me at wbonsell at comcast dot net.......You do pretty well at Portland and are getting better. Think how much faster you'd be if you raced more! I know my setup is not right generally and I think
it affects me more at PIR than other tracks. Come on up to Pacific the end of September.....I know you want another crack at that track!!

Bill

[Randy Thieme]

My experience with Conference so far has been a lot of fun. As for running in a mixed group the lap time differences are not as much as some of the SCCA ITA races I've done. It's true we wind up with cars which are faster in the straights and slower in the corners. Even I'm faster in the corners! But I've accepted that learning to get around them is a skill to develop. It is frustrating on the start though. Now I know why everyone wanted the split start at Pacific Raceways. I plan to run both SCCA and Conference next year. I really enjoy Conference but three local races is not enough for me. It is dissapointing that SCCA has bailed on ORP twice now, especially when other groups seem to run there successfully. Maybe we just need to talk to one of our local non-Spec Miata drivers who also happens to like to sponser races and see if he would sponser an ORP race.

As for the spec tire change this will certainly up the cost. I've got 2 sets of 888's, 3 sets of RA-1 drys and one set of RA-1 wets. I'm not sure how many I could even give away to the track day and autocross crowd. Truth is all the dries and the 888s are done anyways leaving me just the wets to shave. So this means buying two sets of tires instead of one this winter. I'm really not disappointed by the tire change but I am disappointed by having separate dry and rain models. That will keep the cost higher in the long run instead of just a one-time cost next year. The story so far is the Hoosiers are for national races only. I'm waiting on that one. If that story holds and SCCA conducts Rationals again it could make it confusing. One hidden cost is if Hoosiers are restricted to nationals only and Toyos are for regionals only that's going to mean another 1-2 sets of wheels to mount tires on for drivers doing both races on a Rational weekend.

Let's see: I'm running Spec Miata 1.6L so I've got a class weight of 2275 but I overbored my engine by 10 mil so it's really 2295 but I'm running the regional today so I'm on RA-1s but tomorrow it's the national so it's the Hoosiers except the weatherman says it might rain so then it's the other Hoosiers. Okay, I think I've got it straight. No, wait lets see... Yep, I've got it. No, wait. Does anyone have a spreadsheet?

[Ken SM94]

Hey Randy, don't forget your new Hoosier rain tire shaved to 1/32" for qualifying!!


Has anyone heard how much longer Toyo plans to make the RA-1? I thought it was being discontinued anyway. Didn't they have to fire production back up after we complained so much about the R-888? I see on Toyo's site where they still sell quite a few sizes. I wonder if the SCCA SM change to Hoosier will speed it's demise?....