40 replies to this topic

[Michael Steinbock]

Hi All,

Over the past 4 years, I've done just over ten HPDE's in my '07 Civic Si, and I recently decided to hold off on any further mods to the good ol' civic and take a step up over to SM. I'm new to SM, and I'm primarily looking in online classifieds to find my car to be. I am aiming between $6-10k for the car to buy (grad school limited funds...), and I plan to only HPDE it the first year to adjust to RWD and get to know the car (both driving and mechanically).

As far as actually buying the car, I will almost certainly be driving 6+ hours to wherever the seller happens to be. As I'm new to SM, what sort of things should I be asking for before I make that drive out and back, and then what should I look for when I actually get there? I recently was wondering what you all do as far as test drives when most of these cars are not street legal... Do you just take their word?

I'd love to hear your thoughts as I start to check out more cars.

Thanks!
-Mike

[Tom Hampton]

Welcome! How about tell us where you are. You might not have to go as far as you think.

[Michael Steinbock]

Dayton, OH. There's one car I know of for sale here, but it's out of my price range. A few are scattered around the East coast area though that I've found so far.

[dstevens]

If you are going to drive 6 hrs, spend it driving up to Dave Wheeler's place, Advanced-Autosports. You can buy his SM Handbook (best 20 bucks you'll spend in sm) and see if you want to buy a lower end car built. I bet he can find a car that needs a bit of loving' in your price range. He's closest to you for all the big SM specialty shops that I know about. I didn't do as good a due diligence on my donor though it's straight (enough) but has significant rust and has required a great deal of reconditioning. While it's been a great SM building experience (I've raced other vehicles prior) it's taken a great deal of time to refurb. I basically have a stripped tub with all new hardware and new or reconditioned parts. It's also been a good excuse to buy tools but at the end of the day one of the primary reasons I haven't made it on the track at this point was the amount of work required to get this donor in what I would consider worthy condition. A lot of people would have left much of it but I couldn't bring myself. My only regret is getting a donor out of excitement to start and wanting to keep it cheap. For another few grand I'd would have been in a much better place not so much in total cost as in total time taken in the build. The link in my sig will show you what I've been dealing with.

Map to Beloit from Dayton.

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CCQQ9w8wAA

[Doug007]

I've been shopping SMs in this price range and just found one so I can offer a few pointers:

#1 concern is the chassis and cage. Body should be straight and cage high quality from someone who welds for a living.
Cars with SCCA/NASA logbooks are a good starting point as they have passed tech. I've seen some homebuilt project SMs with noncompiant cages so look out. Read the rules and understand how the cage should look.

Another issue with a DE car is that you will need a passenger seat and passenger access. Lots of cars have bars through the passenger side or high door bars that don't allow access for a passenger.

Since you won't be racing right away I wouldn't waste money on a nice motor (it will probably push the car over $10k anyways).

FWIW, this looks like a very nice starter car and I considered it but found a car locally in about the same condition...
http://mazdaracers.c...ready-for-sale/

[Stephanie Andersen]

Don't forget to ask to see their logbooks for the car. You can see when it was raced last with which organization, and that will give you a good indication if the car is pretty much legal too. If there was major damage done on track, usually you will find notes written by the impound guys.

[Stephanie Andersen]

If you are going to drive 6 hrs, spend it driving up to Dave Wheeler's place, Advanced-Autosports. You can buy his SM Handbook (best 20 bucks you'll spend in sm) and see if you want to buy a lower end car built. I bet he can find a car that needs a bit of loving' in your price range. He's closest to you for all the big SM specialty shops that I know about.

Do it, he knows his stuff about Spec Miatas.

[LarryKing]

Google's got it wrong. When driving through Chi-Town it is absolutely worth the money to take the Tri-State tollroad, I-294. Unless of course you enjoy sitting still on the Dan Ryan for 2-3 hours.

[Bench Racer]

I shouldn't do this, BUT, two days ago I traveled from the Milwaukee metor area to Joliet, IL.

If I were to travel from Dayton to Beloit I'd travel, Dayton > Indy > Champaign > Bloomington > Beloit.

Wheeler should be around shortly.

[Jim Drago]

Hi All,

Over the past 4 years, I've done just over ten HPDE's in my '07 Civic Si, and I recently decided to hold off on any further mods to the good ol' civic and take a step up over to SM. I'm new to SM, and I'm primarily looking in online classifieds to find my car to be. I am aiming between $6-10k for the car to buy (grad school limited funds...), and I plan to only HPDE it the first year to adjust to RWD and get to know the car (both driving and mechanically).

As far as actually buying the car, I will almost certainly be driving 6+ hours to wherever the seller happens to be. As I'm new to SM, what sort of things should I be asking for before I make that drive out and back, and then what should I look for when I actually get there? I recently was wondering what you all do as far as test drives when most of these cars are not street legal... Do you just take their word?

I'd love to hear your thoughts as I start to check out more cars.

Thanks!
-Mike

I just drove that car from the Dayton area, Very good car, i ran 43's at Road Atlanta in it. Not sure what your budget it.. But many make the mistake of buying a wore out or not a very decent car that needs a lot of work to save $5,000.00, only to put in 10,00 fixing it over the next year and still end up with something worth little more than they paid. Not to say there are not good used bargains out there, there certainly are. Make sure you put in the time before you buy and know what your getting.
Jim

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Log books for NASA are worthless to look at IMO. NASA does not force you to write in it like SCCA does.

Buy from someone who has a good reputation, they are less likely to lie to you as they do not want to tarnish their good rep in SM. As in anything you almost always get what you pay for, unless you find a very distresses seller.

Pretty hard to test drive the car, unless it has a title and license plate, or you take it out on the road without that documentation. I have been known to take my cars on the road for a quick test of something, but knowing the local authorities is key.

The age of the car is something to think about, how much racing has it actually done, does it have any current annual techs, look at the quality of the cage, look at the quality of the components installed, all belts are not equal in cost, neither are seats, steering wheels, or quick disconects, does the motor have lots of miles or track time, likewise with the trans and rear end. How old are the bushings, how old are the shocks, how old are the calipers, hubs, etc.

IMO typically a 6-8k car is very low prep, meaning there will be lots to do upkeep wise once you purchase. You have to factor in those expenses, and life expectancies. A 8k car could end up costing you 14k if things go wrong right after you buy it. It is like going to buy any used car, once you drive it off the lot you are at the mercy of the repair bills that come afterwards.

My first SM I paid 15k, once I dug into it I found that it had blatant cheeter mods done to it, I started correcting as I found them, I ended up putting 6k into that car, it was a very nice car but I did not feel comfortable showing up at the races with cheated up ECU, and engine, on top of that the trans had a nasty grind between 3rd and 4th so that needed changed out as well. Those things had to be changed...I suppose if I never dug into the car I would have never known how blatantly illegal the car was and therefore would not have felt bad driving it in that condition.

[LarryKing]

SCCA doesn't make notations in log-book either, at least not at regional events.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

SCCA doesn't make notations in log-book either, at least not at regional events.

Everytime I go to the registration window at a Regional they make me turn the page and right the race into the log book. this may only be in Great Lakes...

[LarryKing]

Yes, you have to enter the race into the log-book, but when was the last time you heard of anyone being told to take their car and log-book to impound after a race because of contact?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

No agrument there, I only know of 3 cars that have had serious damage I know one of those cars for a fact had nothing noted in the log book, dented fenders IMO should not be noted but a crash that renders the car unraceable should. I have been fortunate enough to suffer only minor dents to my car, others have not been so lucky.

[LarryKing]

only minor dents to my car, others have not been so lucky.

You could interpret that a couple ways.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

^{Ok well I will interpret for you. I have have had dented front fenders, I have given a couple dents to rear quarters. I have not been in any accidents rendering the car unraceable. 3 Cars in Great lakes Have been rendered unracable all in one race weekend in T1 at Mid Ohio. I do not feel the need to name names on who's cars were damaged enough that racing for the weekend was over. Furthermore I was not involved in said accident, since it seems you would like to paint me into a corner with words. I will name names of two guys I gave dents to in a season where I raced 14 race weekends, I put a dent In Tom Fowlers bumper and I put a dent In Guthries quarter. Both of which were totaly my faulty and I appologized for both.}

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Now can we get back to helping a guy who is looking for an SM? This was about helping him ask the right questions and look at the right things not a personal debate about dented fenders...

[Jim Drago]

Yes, you have to enter the race into the log-book, but when was the last time you heard of anyone being told to take their car and log-book to impound after a race because of contact?

I have two cars of the three we keep here that have contact pages in the log book? Maybe just a National deal? But of the two car, they had three accidents, all three in log book. All three were not able to be driven off track

[LarryKing]

My point being log books are of limited utility. An alignment rack would be more revealing.