67 replies to this topic

[DionJ]

So will the festival race be open to those who ran national? and will there be a separate qualifying for it?

[NV Racer]

Correct me if I am wrong but if you want National points you must run on Hoosiers and If you want Regional points you must run Toyos. I assume the region can waive the Toyo requirement for regional points But I am pretty sure you must run Hoosiers for National points no waiver possible.

Dennis

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Dion, great point, thanks!

The Festival race is open to all SM/SMT/SSM cars. Qualifying is typically set based on fast lap of the second race. Because the Festival race is a regional race, only cars running on Toyos will be considered to have posted a qualifying time during the second regional race. National-entered cars will have to start at the back and run Toyos for the bonus race (and the glory...).

See below for updated answer.

Edited by Brian Ghidinelli, 05-21-2012 05:11 PM.

[dp35]

I'm pretty sure that the grid for the festival race in recent years was the same as Race #2 (not positive about last year, so correct me if I'm wrong).

It would be cool if the festival grid were set based on the finishing order of both of the regional races (motocross scoring). This simple change would make it like a grand finale & the unofficial West Coast SM Championship race.

[Bad Rusty]

FYI guys, answer from the SFR SCCA office (Thanks Sherry!)

Hi Rusty –
The National entrants are not eligible for the Festival race:

Spec Miata Festival: Second race for drivers entered in Group 17 Regional. Grid position set by Saturday qualifying session. No points. Checkered flag, trophies awarded at Impound after race.

That’s the only way it would be fair to the Regional drivers.

Sherry

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Yup, just coming to post the same thing, I had it wrong, the SMF is a Regional only race so only for those entrants. This is something peculiar to our current tire situation. It is, however, hopefully something that encourages more people to run on the Toyos.

I don't know if we can adjust how we set the grid for the SMF. I like your idea of motocross scoring, but I'm sure a lot of other people hate it. Such is decision making by group... I'll run it up the flagpole.

[Ken SM94]

Well that's one way to keep us from coming down...

Infinion wasn't on our schedule until it became an option for National points (and the contingencies that go with it) The Festival race was just a bonus and I have already bought a set Toyo's for it.

I figured we would get al least a few of you guy's to buy some hoosiers and join us but I can see you're working to fix that. I'm not sure what you're worred about as I don't think the Hoosier's are faster anyway. They'e not faster at Portland or T-hill.

I'll talk to our group but I doubt there will be much enthusiasm at this point.

I guess this is the consiquences of chosing to stay on the Toyo only for regional. Bummer.

[dp35]

Brian - I can't understand why anyone would hate that idea, but I'm not in touch with the masses. Would be cool if we could have a vote on it, but I'm sure that's not easy.

Ken - with all the respect in the world, I just don't understand your position. You guys are willing to come down & race on Toyos at LS & for the festival race, but don't want to race with the rest of us at the Infineon regionals.

Maybe it's because I don't understand the desire to score national points when not going to the runoffs.

Or maybe you're bored of the lack of competition we provide, & tired of hurting our feelings for all those years.

Lots of things I don't understand...

[Dan Cooper]

Totally agree Ken!! It will truly be a shame if you and your boys don't make the haul because of this.

I saw problems with having different National/Regional tires from the beginning. I hope this gets fixed for next season.

[Ron Alan]

FYI guys, answer from the SFR SCCA office (Thanks Sherry!)

Hi Rusty –
The National entrants are not eligible for the Festival race:

Spec Miata Festival: Second race for drivers entered in Group 17 Regional. Grid position set by Saturday qualifying session. No points. Checkered flag, trophies awarded at Impound after race.

That’s the only way it would be fair to the Regional drivers.

Sherry

So it looks like this decision just cost the region how much in entry fees(+/- $4000?) if Kens statement is true.(and thats just the northern boys!)

Ken...first off, I hope the region figures out away to rectify this and give all a chance to run the festival race on toyo's. When you guys show up it really changes the game and gets many fired up. Last year 4 top guys showed up(along with the Oregon 6) who were not regulars which made the top 20 a who's who. When your jacked to finish in the top 10 you know its a good race weekend!

You guys being on Hoosiers and basically seperate would be a bummer...but i get it. This is why I've suggested running SM national in a different group so you guys could double dip in SM on toyos...and for that matter regional guys could also do both. But not knowing how it works money wise and car count I'm speaking from ignorance. Just looking for that perfect storm at a great venue! My guess is there are at least 6 previous podium finishers(not regulars)and top local NASA guys that are waiting to see what shakes out!

I hope it works out you guys make it. BTW...this is somewhat of a personal bias as we wont get to run with you at Laguna Finals!
But I will be there routeing against you

[Johnny D]

Are our SFR boys(and girls) that ran the National at TH this year eligible?

[Dan Cooper]

Are our SFR boys(and girls) that ran the National at TH this year eligible?

Johnny, I think they mean if you enter the "National" part of the "Rational" weekend then you are not eligible. All depends what group you choose for the weekend itself.

Different run group petition.

1) Dan Cooper
2)

[Johnny D]

Johnny, I think they mean if you enter the "National" part of the "Rational" weekend then you are not eligible. All depends what group you choose for the weekend itself.

Different run group petition.

1) Dan Cooper
2)

But everyone, at least in a Miata, IMO, should be able to run in the festival race.
IDK, I'm not running SCCA so...
Just +1 with Ron, you don't want to turn people away.
2 Classes in the festival race, Nat and Reg?
Kinda been over this before, guess SFR just isn't going to do it.
J~

[DionJ]

Johnny, I think they mean if you enter the "National" part of the "Rational" weekend then you are not eligible. All depends what group you choose for the weekend itself.

Different run group petition.

1) Dan Cooper
2)

Add me to that petition, I guess that's the easiest way to solve the problem. Maybe SFR could offer out of region competitors a free 2nd class to help convince them to come?

[Rob Burgoon]

So frustrating.

[Bad Rusty]

Forgive my ignorance on this thing guys (refer back to a mid pack novice, me), but all SFR HAS to do is put the spec miata national class/race in the IT group. Then they can double dip into the regional spec miata race, like we do into IT?

I'm sure I'm missing something since this sounds too easy?

[Johnny D]

You asked for a West Coast Championship!! Well, this isn't it. Yet.

He said it best.
J~

[Brian Ghidinelli]

IDK, I'm not running SCCA so...

He said it best.

LOL, I don't know if I can take this seriously so I'll just say, "Thank you for your input".

To summarize and respond to the various things posted so far:

* Darin - it looks like we're going to try using both races as the qualifying process for the Festival race; thanks for the suggestion, I think that's going to be a lot of fun!

* The Festival races that SFR puts on are for Regional racers who support the region all season long. They are funded by the Regional drivers entry fees which is the justification for restricting them to the Regional entrants. It's supported by people like Sunoco and AIM who support our Regional program. I don't personally agree with this (and suggested letting them start at the back...) but you can't build Rome in a day. If you aren't going to the Runoffs, then you're just racing and since I'm the only one who has gone to the Runoffs out of any of us in the past 3 seasons, it's a little disingenuous to act like National points are that important.

* "Just" moving National SM cars into another run group is not easy. Group 5 (where most of the IT cars are) is already very large. It is unlikely to support another 15-20 cars (which is what would happen if we could all double-dip in regional and national). I'm going to say what I said since day 1 (when Ron apparently came up with the idea... ): only a huge regional turn out could possibly force National cars into another group.


And National points are *really* that important? Do we currently have a single "National" driver in SFR? I don't think there is a "National" driver in Oregon either. You have drivers who are out there racing, sometimes under a Regional sanction and sometimes under a National sanction. In our case, that requires different tires. I think we made the right decision to stick with Toyos this year - the racing has continued to be fair and predictable with a stable cost component.

Because I pushed to make the Infineon race as competitive and inclusive as possible (and therefore a Rational, hoping to attract more drivers to town), we do have this situation. It's unique to SM remember. A Rational has a lot of additional overhead and changes that make for more work for the club to put on. Can we evaluate tires and changes for 2013? Of course. In the mean time, we're working on something here, there's going to be some bumps and there's going to be some rough edges. It would be good if this event were judged for what it is and what it will be rather than what it isn't on the first try.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

BTW, people with constructive criticism or feedback can use our digital comments box: http://goo.gl/e8njj

[Bad Rusty]

Brian,

I (I think 99% of racers) appreciate the effort on this. After my comment I wondered what a 75 car field in IT would look like:). Thanks for trying to make everyone happy, I'm in either way! Mid pack batttle commence!!