34 replies to this topic

[granracing]

He shouldn't have been surprised SFI wouldn't show him data.

Maybe naive of me, but I thought SFI oversaw the testing and received the results directly from test labs (before being forced into looking at this further). I personally own an ISAAC, and have been more than happy with it. Honestly Glenn, I'm probably just as confused about this whole deal as you and also have been more concerned with a side impact. While researching for this article, I spoke with the inventor of the Safety Solutions devices, owner (inventor?) of DefNender, and a HANS rep. What I walked away with is that there's a ton of politics, unless you're a big player in this there isn't a financial motivator (a.k.a. DefNender), and test results should be viewed as...well, better than none.

I so badly wanted to come away from this saying the S.S. product is absolutely the way to go but it didn't turn out that way. Funny how controlling a design can work in a company's favor. In many respects this was one of the tougher articles I've written as I didn't walk away with an answer I felt comfortable recommending to others. I actually thought about not posting it, but thought bringing the politics to the forefront was important. I'd LOVE to know what the true numbers are but unless there's enough pressure for a change, we'll have to rely on darn marketing departments. There's a lot of subjectivity IMO to the decision because we lack real information.

Next year I'll be borrowing an older style HANS. You know, the one with the lower wings. Great, just great. I totally admit to not feeling so confident about that design especially having a friend who used it (yes, his belts were secure before going out) and had belts slip out.

[John Costello]

I've worn the same HANS since my first session of my first driving school in 2003. I have replaced the tethers every other year or so and had it retro certified years ago. I have "tested it" BIG on more than one occasion and never had a belt come off or collarbone injuries. I am a firm believer in the HANS. My only debate is whether to recertify my good old one or get a new one!

[dstevens]

Maybe naive of me, but I thought SFI oversaw the testing and received the results directly from test labs (before being forced into looking at this further).

I wouldn't say naive, you just didn't know and a whole bunch of other folks don't know as well. That's why I think the piece was good. Yep, the head and neck restraint industry is littered with politics as is the SFI in general. It's good you shine a light on it so folks can make informed decisions on what could potentially be a life saving device.

[FTodaro]

I totally admit to not feeling so confident about that design especially having a friend who used it (yes, his belts were secure before going out) and had belts slip out.

I don't know the facts of the incident you mentioned, but I think a fair amount of safety equipment, helmets, suits, neck restraints are bought without the proper attention to fit. you should be fitted by someone who knows what they are doing vs. you just grabbing one off the shelf. I took my time in getting the right fit, I am guessing that does not always happen.

I use the Schroth Profi II belts that are 3/2 then narrow two inch shoulder belts. I find that they are comfortable with a neck restraint device and I have never had them come off.

[CruzanTom]

I don't know the facts of the incident you mentioned, but I think a fair amount of safety equipment, helmets, suits, neck restraints are bought without the proper attention to fit.

I have used a HANS religiously since my first session in Driver's School and my experience is that you need to tighten, tighten and tighten the straps for a good fit. My HANS is the right size for me but normal movement can get the shoulder straps a bit loose. My ritual is I snug it down in the paddock, tighten the straps tight in the pits, tighten again on the parade lap and pull down on the straps on the straight-aways as I am checking the gauges. I am compulsive about my shoulder straps, but maybe not as much as Senna was in Brazil when he lost feeling and use of his arms while winning the Grand Prix race there.

[tony senese]

Sorry, I got confused over which part of my anatomy I was measuring and protecting...

And.... you still need to buy a new tape measure.......

[wreckerboy]

I don't know the facts of the incident you mentioned, but I think a fair amount of safety equipment, helmets, suits, neck restraints are bought without the proper attention to fit. you should be fitted by someone who knows what they are doing vs. you just grabbing one off the shelf. I took my time in getting the right fit, I am guessing that does not always happen.

I use the Schroth Profi II belts that are 3/2 then narrow two inch shoulder belts. I find that they are comfortable with a neck restraint device and I have never had them come off.

If Dave doesn't want to post the name of the driver I will respect that, but I've seen the tape of the incident, know the driver in question, and have no doubt that the HANS was installed and fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications. And it still dumped due to a lateral load.

But that's not the only one that I know of that has dumped. The other was part of a fatality at LRP a few years ago.

Like Dave, I have and prefer an ISAAC. I've chosen to replace it with a Rage because it does not rely upon an interference fit between the belts and the driver to work, as the HANS does. I'm still tempted to leave the ISAAC in the car and get through tech with the damned Rage, however.

[Glenn]

If Dave doesn't want to post the name of the driver I will respect that, but I've seen the tape of the incident, know the driver in question, and have no doubt that the HANS was installed and fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications. And it still dumped due to a lateral load.

But that's not the only one that I know of that has dumped. The other was part of a fatality at LRP a few years ago.

Like Dave, I have and prefer an ISAAC. I've chosen to replace it with a Rage because it does not rely upon an interference fit between the belts and the driver to work, as the HANS does. I'm still tempted to leave the ISAAC in the car and get through tech with the damned Rage, however.

Going to Visit Dave @ OG on Sat. I suspect I will be making the same decision

[granracing]

GA, whose HANS came FLYING out from under the shoulder harnesses after the first hit during a high speed wreck at Watkins Glen, right before hitting the wall two more times. Having to choose between HNR or tight belts when hitting the wall? Priceless.

Guess since Greg Amy posted it on another forum, it's okay. Coincidence that the wings on newer versions of HANS units are higher than the old ones? Maybe, but...

Knowing Greg, how he approaches things (he's also a pilot so is pretty damn used to checking things over multiple times), hearing his feedback and seeing the video made me nervous. Honestly still does.

Post up what you end up going with and why Glenn.

[Muda]

Hans standard padding lasts a season.
Buy backed sheet gel padding on eBay and refill the stock carrier. For about $35 you can tighten your belts in comfort.

[Glenn]

Guess since Greg Amy posted it on another forum, it's okay. Coincidence that the wings on newer versions of HANS units are higher than the old ones? Maybe, but...

Knowing Greg, how he approaches things (he's also a pilot so is pretty damn used to checking things over multiple times), hearing his feedback and seeing the video made me nervous. Honestly still does.

Post up what you end up going with and why Glenn.

I ended up with the HANS 30. The MAIN reason is ease of use in an enduro. Im NOT 100% with my decision and may call OG on Monday and change my mind.

I liked the way the SS Rage felt in the seat, but Im NOT a fan of the quick releases they use. If they had a MED in stock to try on my decision MAY have been different.

[granracing]

I wasn't too fond of the quick releases either but recently learned they do offer a different version. Swapping them out would be pretty simple...I think.

The way I look at it is that HANS pretty much wrote the rule therefore it should be a darn good product complying with it.

[wreckerboy]

I wasn't too fond of the quick releases either but recently learned they do offer a different version. Swapping them out would be pretty simple...I think.

I chose the alternate releases for mine. Dave Parker at OG was nice enough to offer to install them for me before he shipped the helmet. According to him, it was one of life's lesser thrills. On top of that, due to an ordering error on my end, he gets to do it twice. At least he's going to be a pro at it.

[Glenn]

I chose the alternate releases for mine. Dave Parker at OG was nice enough to offer to install them for me before he shipped the helmet. According to him, it was one of life's lesser thrills. On top of that, due to an ordering error on my end, he gets to do it twice. At least he's going to be a pro at it.

Well that would have been NICE to know last Saturday! Oh well if I dont like the HANS I can sell it on ebay I guess, or sell it to Bobby T since he's gonna borrow it anyway,

[John Costello]

Well, I ended up getting a new HANS. I figured my 10 year old version was wornout after I inspected it and found some pitting and possible delamination. My new one fron Dave Parker at OG racing showed up today(I ordered it yesterday!). I can't believe the difference and improvements in the device. The padding is much thicker and the new one feels much more comfortable(not that the old one was uncomfortable the new one is just better). I went with the quick disconnect which I had on the old one because I use a halo seat. My old wings were flat with a smooth rubber strip. The new one has the increased wing height and a more abraisive rubber strip.
Just a little review comparing the early 2000's model to the 2012 model.