SM for DE?
#1
Posted 03-17-2012 05:53 PM
#2
Posted 03-17-2012 06:54 PM
I doubt you will be bored with running a SM in DE. I instruct DE with a couple of clubs and speed of the SM is not an issue, particularly if you run light, with no restrictor plate (if a 1.8) and are a skilled driver. The SM is excellent for expanding driving skills and is a blast to drive on the limit. Or over the limit for that matter. There is something about driving a prepped race car with full safety equipment which will have you running a lot faster than you will ever go in a DE prepped street car. The consumable and capital costs of a SM will be roughly half those of a E36. If you are running 2 run groups this could be a big difference.
If you buy a SM and change your mind after a season there is a ready market for SM's and the depreciation (assuming you buy a pre-built car) is minimal. To that end, I suggest you buy a true SM with current race log book and not a hyped up Miata. Resale is better and you can also jump into racing anytime you want to.
Cnj
#3
Posted 03-17-2012 08:58 PM
#4
Posted 03-18-2012 02:00 AM
#5
Posted 03-18-2012 05:24 AM
#6
Posted 03-18-2012 07:17 AM
Ok, thanks. What if it is going to be DE only, Can they be made to go faster say to run with a spec boxter or faster? I would really like to be at 215 or better at VIR? The car would still need to be dependable as it would get a lot of track use.
Yes, there are multiple things to to do make them faster. The first thing is to buy a 1.8 and run it with no restricter plate and with a free flow air box (both illegal in SM racing). This may gain you 12-16hp. Then you can run a "hot" head with SM illegal cams. Increase in power varies. Most importantly pull all the weight out of the car you can and run SM light. When I go to DE's and run in the instructor group (at 3 TX tracks) I am commonly running with Spec Boxsters. With no restrictor plate and ballast removed I have no problem running with them and often faster. I can't say what happens at VIR but imagine the experience is similar. Keep in mind that the SM is several hundred lbs lighter than a Spec Boxster so cornering entry and exit is typically faster.
Finally if having a fast car is what you want go to the turbo Miata forum and pick up a sorted car there. Personally I would not want to deal with the hassle.
Cnj
#7
Posted 03-18-2012 07:22 AM
I have never driven a e36, but have driven e30 M3, and e46 M3, both on streets and tracks.
Both a fast dependable cars, however, maintenance wise much higher than the Miata, specially tire and brake wise.
The Miata will require more from you in the sense of consistency, as you will not have the power to bail you out from error or lapses.
If you need the Miata as a DD also, just get a solid used one. If it is going to be dedicated DE, then as suggested get a SM which can do double duty, particulary with organizations such as NASA which have racing and HPDE on the same dates/tracks.
You and your wife can take turns driving and crewing, until you both share the SM in enduros!
Ok, thanks. What if it is going to be DE only, Can they be made to go faster say to run with a spec boxter or faster? I would really like to be at 215 or better at VIR? The car would still need to be dependable as it would get a lot of track use.
#8
Posted 03-18-2012 06:11 PM
If you are driving to/from the track, you may just want to consider a properly setup Miata dual purpose street/track car with a/c and all those goodies. It gets hot down there. If you plan on towing, well, maybe a fully caged, stripped car would work.
#9
Posted 03-19-2012 06:52 AM
I went with an SM primarily because of the cost of consumables. My only other track experience has been in a 944 Turbo (not track prepared). Tire and brakes on the SM are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. I've gotten about 3-4x the track time out of tires and brakes than the 951 (and both still have plenty of life left).
Someone already mentioned this, but passing can be difficult if the car you are overtaking does not work with you. I'm not sure how NASA's DE program works, but most PCA run groups are only allowed to pass on straights. It is really frustrating to be glued to <fast car x>'s bumper through a series of corners and then have them walk away down a straight ... or not lift enough to give you time to safely complete a pass.
#10
Posted 03-19-2012 09:20 AM
I just got back from a three day DE with PCA at their Texas World Speedway club race. I went from a 300hp BMW 335i to a 100hp miata and am having MUCH more fun in the miata. The fun part is the corners right? In the corners the miatas win!
It is a pain to deal with high HP cars that can't corner. Especially when you get held up on the last corner onto the front straight and then go even slower... However, I wouldn't go back. The cost to operate and reliability are second to none. Many PCA instructors drive and race miatas for these reasons. A lighter more powerful miata would be even more fun than my legal 1.6. I had the pleasure of passing a C6 Z06 at TWS this weekend so it can be done (but the high hp car does have to be cooperative).
#11
Posted 03-20-2012 01:48 PM
Hello all! Im new to SM and have not bought a car yet. Ive been tracking other high hp cars for about 10 years. Due to cost and the fact that my wife wants to drive also when we go now. I am considering a SM. I know they are a blast to race but what about DE? Am I going to be bored or is there enough there to keep it fun? My main track is VIR. Im just thinking that with gas and consumable prices continuing to climb, its crazy to throw money away. My other consideration is an E36. Thanks to all that will reply.
I teach at DEs and compete in time trials, and am dipping my foot into racing this year (hopefully getting my license March 31/April 1st at NJMP). My car's a street-legal mostly-ITA prep 95 miata (it's got most of the ITA improvements other than a totally stock crate from Mazda).
The economics of a Miata can't be beat. I typically have run 35-45 track days each year for the past 4 years, and other than tires and brakes my only consumables have been a couple of front hubs, a rear hub and bearing, and a transmission (mine had 160k+ miles on it when it finally went).
As others have said a well driven miata can be as fast on many tracks as cars with more power....it's much more rewarding to be fast in something that seems like it ought to be slow.
#12
Posted 03-20-2012 03:22 PM
#13
Posted 03-22-2012 01:12 PM
- Johnny D likes this
#14
Posted 03-22-2012 01:31 PM
I find it much more enjoyable to do track days in a car with all the right safety gear (i.e., cage, harness, racing seat, etc.) than in a mostly stock street car.
#15
Posted 03-24-2012 07:54 PM
Except for the front and back straights, it is a blast to run down cars with 3x the HP on the rest of VIR.
R1chy
#16
Posted 03-25-2012 10:28 AM
Most of the time I enjoyed a DE day more with the SM than with my son's M3, and that is one fun car to drive.
>As others have said a well driven miata can be as fast on many tracks as cars with more power....it's much more >rewarding to be fast in something that seems like it ought to be slow.
#17
Posted 03-25-2012 11:17 AM
"The Colonel" who gives a portion of the drivers meeting as chief official at local club DE track events often has this to say:
I want everyone to keep their heads up out there. There are some really high HP cars on the track today, and some low HP cars that go really fast. If you get caught by a Miata, let them pass you. There is a reason they caught you. Follow them and watch what they're doing that makes them fast.
Sometimes there is a bonehead or two in the group that can't get that through their thick skull. "I must be in the fastest run group. I drive flatout." but for the most part those issues sort themselves out and people learn to play nicely in the same sandbox.
#18
Posted 04-02-2012 03:18 PM
Here is example from March NASA SE Pot-O-Gold at Rd Atl:
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