17 replies to this topic

[TRJ3]

Hello all! Im new to SM and have not bought a car yet. Ive been tracking other high hp cars for about 10 years. Due to cost and the fact that my wife wants to drive also when we go now. I am considering a SM. I know they are a blast to race but what about DE? Am I going to be bored or is there enough there to keep it fun? My main track is VIR. Im just thinking that with gas and consumable prices continuing to climb, its crazy to throw money away. My other consideration is an E36. Thanks to all that will reply.

[Cnj]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I doubt you will be bored with running a SM in DE. I instruct DE with a couple of clubs and speed of the SM is not an issue, particularly if you run light, with no restrictor plate (if a 1.8) and are a skilled driver. The SM is excellent for expanding driving skills and is a blast to drive on the limit. Or over the limit for that matter. There is something about driving a prepped race car with full safety equipment which will have you running a lot faster than you will ever go in a DE prepped street car. The consumable and capital costs of a SM will be roughly half those of a E36. If you are running 2 run groups this could be a big difference.

If you buy a SM and change your mind after a season there is a ready market for SM's and the depreciation (assuming you buy a pre-built car) is minimal. To that end, I suggest you buy a true SM with current race log book and not a hyped up Miata. Resale is better and you can also jump into racing anytime you want to.

Cnj

[Ron Alan]

This...!!

[Rob Burgoon]

One thing i'll say is that passing an unwilling car car be difficult in an sm, just like in real racing except they can get testy if you pass under hard braking with some hpde orgs.

[TRJ3]

Ok, thanks. What if it is going to be DE only, Can they be made to go faster say to run with a spec boxter or faster? I would really like to be at 215 or better at VIR? The car would still need to be dependable as it would get a lot of track use.

[Cnj]

Ok, thanks. What if it is going to be DE only, Can they be made to go faster say to run with a spec boxter or faster? I would really like to be at 215 or better at VIR? The car would still need to be dependable as it would get a lot of track use.

Yes, there are multiple things to to do make them faster. The first thing is to buy a 1.8 and run it with no restricter plate and with a free flow air box (both illegal in SM racing). This may gain you 12-16hp. Then you can run a "hot" head with SM illegal cams. Increase in power varies. Most importantly pull all the weight out of the car you can and run SM light. When I go to DE's and run in the instructor group (at 3 TX tracks) I am commonly running with Spec Boxsters. With no restrictor plate and ballast removed I have no problem running with them and often faster. I can't say what happens at VIR but imagine the experience is similar. Keep in mind that the SM is several hundred lbs lighter than a Spec Boxster so cornering entry and exit is typically faster.

Finally if having a fast car is what you want go to the turbo Miata forum and pick up a sorted car there. Personally I would not want to deal with the hassle.

Cnj

[Armando Ramirez]

Hello,

I have never driven a e36, but have driven e30 M3, and e46 M3, both on streets and tracks.
Both a fast dependable cars, however, maintenance wise much higher than the Miata, specially tire and brake wise.

The Miata will require more from you in the sense of consistency, as you will not have the power to bail you out from error or lapses.

If you need the Miata as a DD also, just get a solid used one. If it is going to be dedicated DE, then as suggested get a SM which can do double duty, particulary with organizations such as NASA which have racing and HPDE on the same dates/tracks.

You and your wife can take turns driving and crewing, until you both share the SM in enduros!

Ok, thanks. What if it is going to be DE only, Can they be made to go faster say to run with a spec boxter or faster? I would really like to be at 215 or better at VIR? The car would still need to be dependable as it would get a lot of track use.

[Alberto]

VIR is a big track. If you are thinking of a Miata, I'd look at the 99+ models since they make more power when not subject to SM prep.

If you are driving to/from the track, you may just want to consider a properly setup Miata dual purpose street/track car with a/c and all those goodies. It gets hot down there. If you plan on towing, well, maybe a fully caged, stripped car would work.

[Don]

I've been DEing with the local PCA. Last year I picked up a SM (1.8L, no restrictor plate ... otherwise legal) to use as a dedicated DE car. It has been a blast! My home track is CMP which seems to suit the SM very well. I did one event at VIR last year. An SM can easily keep up with the higher hp cars on the majority of the track with the exception of the back straight (my experience anyway). You really have to watch your mirrors on the back straight, higher hp cars come up on you really fast.

I went with an SM primarily because of the cost of consumables. My only other track experience has been in a 944 Turbo (not track prepared). Tire and brakes on the SM are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. I've gotten about 3-4x the track time out of tires and brakes than the 951 (and both still have plenty of life left).

Someone already mentioned this, but passing can be difficult if the car you are overtaking does not work with you. I'm not sure how NASA's DE program works, but most PCA run groups are only allowed to pass on straights. It is really frustrating to be glued to <fast car x>'s bumper through a series of corners and then have them walk away down a straight ... or not lift enough to give you time to safely complete a pass.

[Doug007]

I'll second everything said here.

I just got back from a three day DE with PCA at their Texas World Speedway club race. I went from a 300hp BMW 335i to a 100hp miata and am having MUCH more fun in the miata. The fun part is the corners right? In the corners the miatas win!

It is a pain to deal with high HP cars that can't corner. Especially when you get held up on the last corner onto the front straight and then go even slower... However, I wouldn't go back. The cost to operate and reliability are second to none. Many PCA instructors drive and race miatas for these reasons. A lighter more powerful miata would be even more fun than my legal 1.6. I had the pleasure of passing a C6 Z06 at TWS this weekend so it can be done (but the high hp car does have to be cooperative).

[Jeff Wasilko]

Hello all! Im new to SM and have not bought a car yet. Ive been tracking other high hp cars for about 10 years. Due to cost and the fact that my wife wants to drive also when we go now. I am considering a SM. I know they are a blast to race but what about DE? Am I going to be bored or is there enough there to keep it fun? My main track is VIR. Im just thinking that with gas and consumable prices continuing to climb, its crazy to throw money away. My other consideration is an E36. Thanks to all that will reply.

I teach at DEs and compete in time trials, and am dipping my foot into racing this year (hopefully getting my license March 31/April 1st at NJMP). My car's a street-legal mostly-ITA prep 95 miata (it's got most of the ITA improvements other than a totally stock crate from Mazda).

The economics of a Miata can't be beat. I typically have run 35-45 track days each year for the past 4 years, and other than tires and brakes my only consumables have been a couple of front hubs, a rear hub and bearing, and a transmission (mine had 160k+ miles on it when it finally went).

As others have said a well driven miata can be as fast on many tracks as cars with more power....it's much more rewarding to be fast in something that seems like it ought to be slow.

[Keith Novak]

You're not going to get "throw you into the back of the seat" excitement with a Miata. If you're worried about getting dusted in the straights, you WILL get dusted in the straights. It's not what the car is good at. That being said, it is an amazingly fun car to drive. You can do your taxes in the straights, and then motion angrily at a viper driver slowing you down in the corners. It's great for DE. They way you have to drive it emphasizes balance and weight transfer and all the things that are the real fundamentals of handling. I do a little bit of DE instruction. They're not trying to race but want to drive their nice car fast. When I point out that if they tap their brakes just lightly here it will settle the car and allow it to turn in, they want to hug me at the end of the day.

[Lin]

I am a PCA instructor and I race Spec Miata. I wish more students would start with the Miata instead of a high horsepower car. The car handling skills and driving skills you will learn in the Miata to make it go fast will make you a better driver. There's nothing like the satisfaction of hanging on the back of a Corvette through a set of turns. With enough horsepower, anyone can go fast in a straight line. Once you learn the SM, you will be passing many of the cars that should be going faster. Those guys burn through their tires and brakes and the little energizer bunny SM keeps on going! As others said, get one with a log book in case you decide to go racing. Start studying the rosters for the local track events and see which one's are attracting Miatas. The car is the most fun when you get a little posse together to buzz the field. Introduce yourself to the other Miata owners. This is a friendly bunch. I would also suggest spending some time at the local track before buying a car and ask the guys what to look for in a starter car. There's usually a few for sale up at Summit Point.

[Michael Colangelo]

I've did plenty of DE days in a Spec Miata. Aside from being cramped with two people in it (during the few times I had an instructor in the right seat), it worked out pretty well.

I find it much more enjoyable to do track days in a car with all the right safety gear (i.e., cage, harness, racing seat, etc.) than in a mostly stock street car.

[RacerX]

Driving fast in straights is all about HP, but driving fast in the corners is all about the driver.

Except for the front and back straights, it is a blast to run down cars with 3x the HP on the rest of VIR.

R1chy

[Armando Ramirez]

Maybe I read it in this forum: "Just about anyone can drive a fast car, only some can drive a car fast" - I am paraphrasing.

Most of the time I enjoyed a DE day more with the SM than with my son's M3, and that is one fun car to drive.

>As others have said a well driven miata can be as fast on many tracks as cars with more power....it's much more >rewarding to be fast in something that seems like it ought to be slow.

[Keith Novak]

It can get frustrating when there are cars on the course that go fast in different places. Often drivers with high HP cars want to make the pass at the end of the straights and then park it in the turns. (Same is true racing in mixed fields)

"The Colonel" who gives a portion of the drivers meeting as chief official at local club DE track events often has this to say:

I want everyone to keep their heads up out there. There are some really high HP cars on the track today, and some low HP cars that go really fast. If you get caught by a Miata, let them pass you. There is a reason they caught you. Follow them and watch what they're doing that makes them fast.

Sometimes there is a bonehead or two in the group that can't get that through their thick skull. "I must be in the fastest run group. I drive flatout." but for the most part those issues sort themselves out and people learn to play nicely in the same sandbox.

[Brendan O]

I have been doing DEs since 2008 with a 2003 1.8 NB. I have about 8 weekends under by belt, mostly with Chin but some with ReZoom and NASA SE. In2008, I was new to DEs and so the 1.8 NB was my DD and i did not have a trailer. But I loved it so much I got a cage installed by OPM this year (2012) and it is now a dedicated DE car and i have a trailer. Once I get my lap times down I will do w2w with it. I am at 2400 lbs with me (180 lbs) and i have the SD exhaust and no RP. I am at 122 RWHP without the 2001+ ignition timing adjustment and stock airbox and stock 01+ exhaust header. I run at Road Atlanta and Barber and have a blast in HPDE2 (solo, no instructor, but only one step above beginner HPDE1). I can't believe the cars i can chase down at these two tracks - 911s, bimmers etc. A lot of it is that i now run Hoosiers and most people in HPDE1 and 2 have street cars and street tires so i can easily stay on their rear bumper from T1 thru T7 at Rd Atlanta and all the way around Barber. Any way, driving my new caged Miata is a hoot !! It is sooooo reliable - it has NEVER broken down and it is easy on tire, pad, rotor cost. But again, I think it's super fun. I do get passed at Rd Atl on back straight but i can then chase cars down from T1 thru T7. At Rd Atl, I am at around 115 mph before 10A which is plenty fast for me while i learn how to go fast.

Here is example from March NASA SE Pot-O-Gold at Rd Atl: