5 replies to this topic

[Brendan O]

Hi,
I have a brand new SM from OPM (thanks Tom, Ryan and everyone else at OPM Autosports !!!). This year, I am just trying to learn to go fast in HPDE (i.e. track day) events. Over last two years, I have eight weekends doing HPDE events at Road Atlanta and Barber. The first four were with stock suspension and street tires. The last four were with SM suspension and Hoosiers. Over the last two years and eight HPDE weekends, I have never experienced rain. This coming weekend I will be at Barber with REZOOM club and right now it looks like rain both days. Some of the rain may be heavy. I have been signed off for yellow (in NASA terms this is HPDE 2 - one step above beginner green or HPDE 1) so I don't have to have an instructor. I wouldn't mind paying for one but the fire suppression tank is still in there and I haven't yet bought passenger seat and harness (they will be purchased asap).

So ...

I really want to take advantage of the rain. I know I have slow hands when it comes to car control. I really need to get better / more comfortable with car control at speed. So I thought the rain would provide a perfect opportunity to forget about lap times for once and simply focus on car control at lower/safer speeds due to wet track. On "safe" corners, I will purposefully try induce oversteer (trail braking, trailing throttle, power on etc) and understeer etc.

I have a nice set of brand new Hoosiers that are mounted and that have already been broken in (one session) and have cured for several weeks and are ready to go. I also have another set of mounted Hoosiers that are older / more tired / worn out. I don't have mounted rain tires because I'm just doing HPDEs for now. My initial thought is that I don't want to use my perfect, cured set in the rain since it seems like a waste. I want to use them to try beat my best lap time when it's dry. But my concern with using the older / tired set is that the two grooves in them may be pretty shallow such that the tire is almost perfectly flat (a slick). That may be TOO exciting in the rain. Maybe if the track is just moist with no pooling water, they will be ok?

So my question is: do you think I should use the new Hoosiers or the tired Hoosiers if track is wet?

Also, for a novice like me, should i not go out if there is standing water? In the yellow group (HPDE 2), there are Vette, Mustang, M3, GT3RS etc. I am a little worried about the speed differential in the rain. If a vette miscalculates brake zone, and hits the back of me, he/she may do this with a delta speed of 30-40 mph at the end of a straight. Also, I could be the dork that screws up and hits someone.

If any of you can remember your first rain experience as a novice, i'd like to hear your thoughts.

thanks
Brendan

[Keith Novak]

Most people use dry tires when it's just damp. You're just driving on a slick surface, not trying to move water. I'd use the old tires. That way if you go off in the mud you're less likely to get debris stuck in the tire bead of your good tires. If there is standing water, hydroplaning is very easy even with rain tires. You'd be better off not going out at all on drys. Many very experienced drivers who get stuck out on drys in a good rain quickly call it quits after a scary moment or two.

The speed differential with high HP cars drops dramatically in the rain. They can't put all that power down, take a long distance to brake, and usually don't corner very well. I've been one of the fastest cars on track in a field of very high HP cars when it rained. Some drivers do get pissed at the chick car passing them and have a tendency to try and brake or corner with me or gas it too hard and take themselves out so be wary of the guys with more motor than brains.

Take it easy and play safe. Play on low speed corners and don't worry too much about maximum straight line speed while you experiment. Grass is amazingly slick when it's wet and you can slide a long long way before you hit something solid. Much less momentum in low speed corners. You're likely to spin out but not go zinging off into a wall or stuck a mile deep in a muddy field. Remember that if you lock up the tires you can't control the car (slow it or turn) until the tires are turning again. Getting off the brake and back on will do that better than just trying to ease up on the brakes. Don't get too fancy and try to make it slide. It will do that all by itself. I use mostly throttle and steering to control rotation.

Also experiment with the track surface to find where there's grip. A lot of people will just drive a little bit wider line. I'll spend whole sessions exploring the track to see where there's the best grip and it can change a lot during the session. Most of all, have fun with it. A lot of people hate driving in the rain. I think it's a blast.

[Brendan O]

Thanks for good advice Keith. It's funny how people fall into two very clear camps with very little overlap. People either hate rain or they like it. I have not yet experienced it but i think i won't like it - just guessing. But it seems like it would be a nice vacation from dry conditions. When it's dry, i'm always putting pressure on myself to go faster, get close to limit etc. That is tiring and can be stressful (for me anyway). If it rains, it's nice because i'll just say "well - i don't care about my lap time - i'll just practice car control for two days". That almost sounds more relaxing than trying to go fast in the dry (e.g. doing 88 mph around Road Atlanta T1). But i'm sure practicing car control in the wet can be stressful as well. And like you said - i think i will worry more about other drivers when wet - that is probably not a rational thought.

Does anyone have any wet experience at Barber? Are there parts of track that always have pooling water? If it looks really bad, i think i'll sulk in the paddock because i don't think a novice, Hoosiers and rain are a good combo.

I really need to buy street tires for my stock 16" rims for when it rains.

[Steve-O]

The REZOOM guys are great- ask them for advice. They run Barber frequently and will be happy to help.

[Cy Peake]

I wouldn't suggest trying ANYTHING too drastic on dry tires in the rain in a brand new car with only 8 events under your belt. Remember that those tires will need some heat in them even if it's pouring. Bump your cold starting pressures up 4-5 psi. Disconnect both swaybars (remove end links) on one side. Newer wipers and RainX on the windshield. Lights on never hurts for visibility from behind for those faster cars you're worried about. Hunt around each corner, lap after lap to find where the most grip lies. Try to brake a half (or entire) car width to the inside of the dry line, as those polished tire tracks will be slick when wet. Remember to have the tires pointed straight when re-entering the track after an off. Given your lack of experience, I'd suggest you tiptoe through the fast corners and pick the slowest with the most runoff for your experimenting. Speeds are slower so adjust your braking points and pedal pressure. As mentioned above, relax brake pressure when you lock a wheel. Face shield may need to be cracked open to prevent fogging. Go out with a positive attitude and try to have fun. Talk to a more experienced person in the paddock for tips, and maybe find someone with rain experience to follow for a session.

[guest driver]

hi Brendan; given all you wrote above, new driver, new car, NO full tread rain tires ... if it's raining your best rain setup tip is ...
jack stands!
Leave her high and dry ... up on jack stands. Only a fool goes out to practice on slicks in the rain, no matter what the Senna types post here.
Wait until it stops raining and the other cars dry out the racing line, then go out on the old tires, normal set ups, driver 8 tenths, have fun.