33 replies to this topic

[moovn]

Spec Miata or Unlimited Miata

After reading all the bashing and bragging i believe everyone is cheating in some way. Spec Miata has come a long way since it's birth how about it all gets changed to "run what you brung" naturally aspirated only! and lets see how good we really think we are or not. I believe IMO only the front wrunners are always being accused of cheating!. It reminds me why I detest Car shows so much he with the biggest budget wins the $9.00 trophy.

[Jim Drago]

three posts so far, all three calling some one or group cheaters etc...

[Rob Burgoon]

OP's post makes my head hurt.

[Ron Alan]

Some believe everything they read. My goal is to beat the cheaters not complain about them

[Johnny D]

A spec class (SM) will show "see how good we really think we are or not" NOT "naturally aspirated only!" with 90~05 running.
You really have respect for how good they are and how good their equipment is legally, when you really get to know the class.

A good example is when you're good not even great in SM and beat higher HP cars in a IT or PT race.
Or you run your best possible lap, hand it over to a hot shoe and they knock a sec+ off your cars time.
J~

[moovn]

Some believe everything they read. My goal is to beat the cheaters not complain about them

Exactly

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Easy to call people cheeters isn't it? especially when you HIde your real name! Even easier to label anyone who beats you a cheater, that way you can feel better about yourself...

been beaten many times by guys I know for a fact are not cheeting. Never once been beaten by someone I felt was cheeting, always been beaten by someone who dials in the setup and drives a great race.

I do think I been beaten by a cheater one time, that damn guy didnt have the right number of NASA stickers on his car, F3cking cheater!

[Ron Alan]

Exactly

My F22 of sarcasm has flown over the "moovn"

Kyle...is Cheeters the plural of cheetah

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Ron, I seen one of them shows about the Cheetah one time, those SOB's are real fast. Maybe thats why they keep beetin the Mooonvnvnv. I have to give it to him if I had to race the Cheetah, I would just call him a f3cking Cheater to.

I still think you are one funny MF'er Ron Alan!!!!!!!!!

[steveracer]

If he's getting beat now, how is getting beat more by those same people with more talent/knowledge/money going to help?

It must be the "I'm cheating and you're beating me, so you must be cheating more" mentality.

[Alex Bolanos]

Spec Miata has come a long way since it's birth how about it all gets changed to "run what you brung" naturally aspirated only! and lets see how good we really think we are or not.

Thank you for your letter, the "cost controlling" rules of Spec Miata are adequate as written.

After reading all the bashing and bragging i believe everyone is cheating in some way. I believe IMO only the front wrunners are always being accused of cheating!. It reminds me why I detest Car shows so much he with the biggest budget wins the $9.00 trophy.

Thank you for your letter, the "publicly uncover, humiliate, ridicule, and occasionally tear down cheaters" rules of Spec Miata are adequate as written.

[Jamz14]

Moovn,

I haven't been around long enough to form any opinion on whether everyone is cheating or not. All I know for sure is that my team is not and never has. Can we run up front, I don't know, we will see on the 26th.

I will also say that you don't have to take my word for it either. Our car is and will be open at anytime, to anyone, to look at. You don't have to post a bond or officially call it into impound. If it is a fairly reasonable request, and it is moderately feasable to do at the track, I will tear down the car for inspection. Sh&$t, I've torn it apart and rebuilt it so many times in the last few weeks trying to fix things, what's one more time to prove to some whiner that the car is squared away. Hopefully we are in a position someday soon to draw the attention of people to call us a cheater ( top step of the podium ). It will give me chance to clean parts too.

Granted, it sounds like there are cheats that won't be found by a tear down. But you can use my ECU too if you want.The only thing I won't show at the track are my setup worksheets. In a spec class , setup is one of the only areas for differentiation. Oh, if you want to dyno it at the track, that would be greatly appreciated, would give me some free dyno time that we could sure use as I am just learning how to tune these cars!!.

One more comment, I've seen this idea so many times now. If you are right, it doesn't matter what you try to do, someone will find a way to cheat or to exploit the rules. Exploitation is part of the game, cheating is not. Open class, spec class, it doesn't matter. I just hope that I will be able to find time sometime soon after just trying to get the car to the explicit rules, to find ways to exploit the rules. And by exploit I don't mean violating the spirit of the rules. I am one of those that believe that you can gauge the spirit of the rules and make an honorable choice to comply. Two different camps on this one. Nothing wrong with either, just my choice fits better with my philosophies on life and responsibility.

J

[Jim Drago]

My cars currently occupy four of the top five slots in the National points .. Many come by and ask to look at the cars and I have no problem with it. Most are just looking for ideas etc. I have no issue with people looking for things outside the rules either. We had one guy this weekend measuring our ride heights Take a look at whatever you want, whenever you want.

IMO if you have formed that opinion so early on, you should save some money and move on as you will not be happy here. The unfortunate part of the success with SM is that the success brought some really talented drivers to the class who want to race some of the best. If you throw in that the racing ( regardless of how expensive it has gotten) is the best racing for the money period, you end up with a class that many step into thinking it is a "beginner " class, that couldn't be further from the truth!. SM competition at the front of the fields is more competition than most can handle. You better have a professionally( which can certainly be built by the owner in his/her garage) built car, set it up and tune it properly for each race and you better be a very good driver. If ALL of those conditions are not met, YOU WILL NOT WIN!

Jim

[Cnj]

My cars currently occupy four of the top five slots in the National points .. Many come by and ask to look at the cars and I have no problem with it. Most are just looking for ideas etc. I have no issue with people looking for things outside the rules either. We had one guy this weekend measuring our ride heights Take a look at whatever you want, whenever you want.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for taking a generous and sportsman like position. Many would not. As you and I have discussed, some treat you with ill simply because your cars are often at the front. Clearly this is not fair and in the interests of enhancing your reputation I think it best if I view your car from the inside during the next few races. I'll bring my own seat cushion. You could drive my car and if I suddenly started to beat you then the jig would be up.

Thoughts?

Cnj

[Jim Drago]

You can drive my car whenever you like.. seriously.
As far as me driving your car.. I think a crow bar and lots of synthetic grease would be in order..

I suspect whoever was in the white car would likely be ahead of whoever is in the black car at most tracks. TMS, I would bet on the white car Halett would be a toss up.

[Rob Burgoon]

lots of synthetic grease would be in order..

Coming soon on pay per view...

[Cnj]

Mmm, yes and I can also see how some might see my currently blown engine as a detriment

As to speed at TMS, I was enthralled to see how you followed me around the first few laps, chose different lines and was considerably faster on both entry and exit than I was while doing an interesting rotation thing with the car under trail brake. I figured out what you were doing (or what I was not) and my times suddenly dropped. Even with my obviously soft engine (about to go to engine heaven) I was comfortably hanging with the normal guys I run with. Nevertheless I would have needed more than an equivalent car to keep with you I suspect.

I agree with your previous post. This is not a beginner class - or at least is not a class for beginners to win in. Actually it's really hard for well prepared and good drivers to win in. A quick watch of Ross's TMS video shows just how tight the class is and how good you have to be to run at the front. Each of those guys has spent a ton of time and money preparing thier cars and themselves in order to be able to have a drive like that. Are any of the cars in that video illegal? It's possible, but I know everyone there reasonably well and I would be disapointed and mildly surprised if any of them failed even a serious tech inspection. No doubt however all of those cars are pushed to the limit of the rule set and I am prefectly fine with that. If I want to run in that group I need to sort my car, drive more and go buy talent (coaching) but I'm sure not going to whine that they are there because they spent or cheated their way there.

Cnj

[KentCarter]

As the driver of a white car, I object to this obviously prejudiced characterization of my car and its legality. Can't we all just get along??

[Cnj]

Carter - the legality of your car seems to be a bit of a moot point nowadays.....

Cnj

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Carter - the legality of your car seems to be a bit of a moot point nowadays.....

Cnj

That just wasn't right...