39 replies to this topic

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here in my area, the 'real' ITA Miata field is growing. Most don't care about the SM's double dipping as we have a culture of 'you should be beating that under-prepped ITA car'. Most beginners set the SM's as their bogeys and then when they get by them, they go after the top Integra's, CRX's, 240SX's, Miata's, Civic's, etc, etc.

It will hurt local revenue unless STL is the new destination - but that depends on what run group STL is in.

Jim is 100% correct in that some just have a problem with Miata's being eligible for a ton of classes - mostly Regionally created stuff like SSM, SM2 etc. They don't get that if they had 10 SE-R's or whatever, they could have their own class too I am sure.

But the bottom line here is that the ITA weight has NOTHING to do with the SM weight - and shouldn't.

[granracing]

Does Greg know you posted this advisory here Andy?

If SM and it's entrants went away tomorrow, so would club racing.

No, they'd find another class to race in. This sport is a dumb drug; it's not that easy to just quit.

If SM drivers were going to ITA for track time and weren't competitive, why is it bad to now enter in STU?

[Rob Burgoon]

Does Greg know you posted this advisory here Andy?



No, they'd find another class to race in.

"and its entrants"

[NV Racer]

Funny thing In the San Francisco region you could triple dip at all races until this year. They consolidated our group 1 into group 5. SM could run ITX in grp 1 ITA in grp 5 and SMT in grp 7. STU and STL are now in grp 5 with ITA.

Dennis

[FastM3]

Well My wife and I share our 90 1.6 so we have to 'double dip'. A couple of times I ran two classes so we had to 'triple dip'. We now run SM and SM2 where up to this year my wife was happy ( and competitive in the ITA Miata class). She has moved away because more Miatas are being built up and there is no one to run against. What is the point of that? More money, more complexity, less reliability, less competition.
And in 2012 it looks like the 1.6 is a no no. (due to some bizarre rules.)

The steady 'Progress" in SM has made our 1.6 car pretty much done. It used to be a top 5 car two years ago and now it is no where. The changes to help parity did not work all that well.
Adding weight to the 1.6 was OK to bring it to a weight that everyone can make. But the 1.8 should weigh 2400 and the 99 should weigh 2500.

95 % or more drivers could care less about the National program. They want a place to run competitively and have fun with friends. Some National drivers come with a different attitude and mindset that winning is everything. Lookout or you can get pushed off track by someone that does not care that you are in his or her way. It seems that there is less sportsmanship at the National level.

The National rules have allowed cars to become very much more expensive and have broadened the gap between the 1.6 and the 99's. And what about people running illegal cams to just try and keep up. 99's running a Turbo intake cam.

The 1.8's needed to be slowed but I don't have enough experience this year yet to know details on this.

The club added in a new Spec tire with a limited fast life which will increase frustration and costs. Again I don't have much experience but my first race in a drizzle I was .5 seconds faster than my fastest Toyo time. Can we go back to Toyo's please? I have had Toyos that run great until they cord.

OK I will stop the rant. You can say I am wrong but I will wager that most SM 1.6 owners and Regional only drivers will agree and most SMers know that while they may not like what I put here it is true.

Thanks

Phil # 38 SM /SM2 /ITA

[plane]

I am new to all this, but I think that most the top cars in CA are 90-93. In our recent race 6 of the top 10 cars were 90 or 91s. At Laguna, the winner was a 1.6 as were 7 of the top 10 cars. I understand that ITA is a differnt isssue, but it is fun to lap the Maserati, even if the other Miatas prove a challange.

[Rob Burgoon]

The club added in a new Spec tire with a limited fast life which will increase frustration and costs. Again I don't have much experience but my first race in a drizzle I was .5 seconds faster than my fastest Toyo time. Can we go back to Toyo's please? I have had Toyos that run great until they cord.

Thanks

Phil # 38 SM /SM2 /ITA

If your regional races are on hoosiers, take it up with your region. What people run in national races shouldn't be an issue for you.

[Jim Drago]

Well My wife and I share our 90 1.6 so we have to 'double dip'. A couple of times I ran two classes so we had to 'triple dip'. We now run SM and SM2 where up to this year my wife was happy ( and competitive in the ITA Miata class). She has moved away because more Miatas are being built up and there is no one to run against. What is the point of that? More money, more complexity, less reliability, less competition.
And in 2012 it looks like the 1.6 is a no no. (due to some bizarre rules.)

The steady 'Progress" in SM has made our 1.6 car pretty much done. It used to be a top 5 car two years ago and now it is no where. The changes to help parity did not work all that well.
Adding weight to the 1.6 was OK to bring it to a weight that everyone can make. But the 1.8 should weigh 2400 and the 99 should weigh 2500.

95 % or more drivers could care less about the National program. They want a place to run competitively and have fun with friends. Some National drivers come with a different attitude and mindset that winning is everything. Lookout or you can get pushed off track by someone that does not care that you are in his or her way. It seems that there is less sportsmanship at the National level.

The National rules have allowed cars to become very much more expensive and have broadened the gap between the 1.6 and the 99's. And what about people running illegal cams to just try and keep up. 99's running a Turbo intake cam.

The 1.8's needed to be slowed but I don't have enough experience this year yet to know details on this.

The club added in a new Spec tire with a limited fast life which will increase frustration and costs. Again I don't have much experience but my first race in a drizzle I was .5 seconds faster than my fastest Toyo time. Can we go back to Toyo's please? I have had Toyos that run great until they cord.

OK I will stop the rant. You can say I am wrong but I will wager that most SM 1.6 owners and Regional only drivers will agree and most SMers know that while they may not like what I put here it is true.

Thanks

Phil # 38 SM /SM2 /ITA

Can I just politely say that a 1.6 just won at the Sprints, where "the poor old 1.6 guys" said it is wasn't possible etc. Perhaps it is entirely possible that the issue lies in the preparation and/or driving of your 1.6? Bringing up multiple different cheats that may or may not be going on has nothing to do with trying to set parity in legal cars in our class. Take a look at the Sprints video posted and please explain how we make the cars any closer than they are. That is the worst 1.6 track in the country if you ask 1.6 drivers. All the cars in video built to the same prep level. About as good as of a comparison as I know to make.

[Ron Alan]

Can I just politely say that a 1.6 just won at the Sprints, where "the poor old 1.6 guys" said it is wasn't possible etc. Perhaps it is entirely possible that the issue lies in the preparation and/or driving of your 1.6? Bringing up multiple different cheats that may or may not be going on has nothing to do with trying to set parity in legal cars in our class. Take a look at the Sprints video posted and please explain how we make the cars any closer than they are. That is the worst 1.6 track in the country if you ask 1.6 drivers. All the cars in video built to the same prep level. About as good as of a comparison as I know to make.

There are drivers and there are whiners...some things in life are guaranteed Parity is better than ever...drivers make or break a car!!

Don't get me wrong...i whine over costs, but not parity and the fact someone just flat out drives us! I stand up and

[DrDomm]

I think it's a good thing if ITA and STL participation and prep increase to the point where SM's are uncompetitive. That would be good for those classes. SM's are designed to be competitive in SM.

I'm not going to talk about tires anymore until I get through my next 2 sets of Hoosiers.

[Alex Bolanos]

Well My wife and I share our 90 1.6 so we have to 'double dip'. A couple of times I ran two classes so we had to 'triple dip'. We now run SM and SM2 where up to this year my wife was happy ( and competitive in the ITA Miata class). She has moved away because more Miatas are being built up and there is no one to run against. What is the point of that? More money, more complexity, less reliability, less competition.
And in 2012 it looks like the 1.6 is a no no. (due to some bizarre rules.)

The steady 'Progress" in SM has made our 1.6 car pretty much done. It used to be a top 5 car two years ago and now it is no where. The changes to help parity did not work all that well.
Adding weight to the 1.6 was OK to bring it to a weight that everyone can make. But the 1.8 should weigh 2400 and the 99 should weigh 2500.

95 % or more drivers could care less about the National program. They want a place to run competitively and have fun with friends. Some National drivers come with a different attitude and mindset that winning is everything. Lookout or you can get pushed off track by someone that does not care that you are in his or her way. It seems that there is less sportsmanship at the National level.

The National rules have allowed cars to become very much more expensive and have broadened the gap between the 1.6 and the 99's. And what about people running illegal cams to just try and keep up. 99's running a Turbo intake cam.

The 1.8's needed to be slowed but I don't have enough experience this year yet to know details on this.

The club added in a new Spec tire with a limited fast life which will increase frustration and costs. Again I don't have much experience but my first race in a drizzle I was .5 seconds faster than my fastest Toyo time. Can we go back to Toyo's please? I have had Toyos that run great until they cord.

OK I will stop the rant. You can say I am wrong but I will wager that most SM 1.6 owners and Regional only drivers will agree and most SMers know that while they may not like what I put here it is true.

Thanks

Phil # 38 SM /SM2 /ITA

[LarryKing]

Can I just politely say that a 1.6 just won at the Sprints

May I politely inquire the model year of the car that crossed the finished line first?

[Alex Bolanos]

May I politely inquire the model year of the car that crossed the finished line first?

98

[Todd Green]

You can say I am wrong but I will wager that most SM 1.6 owners and Regional only drivers will agree

1.6 Regional driver and I disagree with just about everything you just said.

[Bench Racer]

Can I just politely say that a 1.6 just won at the Sprints, where "the poor old 1.6 guys" said it is wasn't possible etc. Perhaps it is entirely possible that the issue lies in the preparation and/or driving of your 1.6?

Perhaps, you should quote what the 1.6 winning driver posted on this site after the 2012 June Sprints race of the 1.6 relative to Road America!!!

The driver did hang very well in the top 5 untill people took themselves out. In short, you have to be there to win. Great job Mr. Buras.

Please don't anyone go on a rant about overall parity because my only issue for the tracks I observe is 1.6 parity at Road America.

[Jim Drago]

So are you flip flopping again on parity at Road America? Who could have ever believed that would happen.

[Tom Sager]

I think if we start a thread about our favorite movies, that thread will turn to a parity discussion by the 15th post with Road America mentioned by the 17th post.

[FTodaro]

I was going to say the same thing. You know the old saying there is nothing is this world for sure except, Death, Taxes and disagreement on Parity.

[Bench Racer]

So are you flip flopping again on parity at Road America?

Not at all.

I am accustom to driving on roads with traffic in more than one direction.

On this site IMHJ there are several categories of threads/posts with a few catagorys listed below.

The grouphoug.

The one sided.

The open discussion.

The controversal.

And of course the AC & friends non-sense.

Tom, I openly offered you a open track session to which you never responded.

An agreement with a national level driver was made to run the car at the Blackhawk Farm national Super Tour event the weekend of Aug 4th-5th. Not going to happen because my MI son informed that new grand son will be baptized that Sunday.

[granracing]

The club added in a new Spec tire with a limited fast life which will increase frustration and costs. Again I don't have much experience but my first race in a drizzle I was .5 seconds faster than my fastest Toyo time.

If you're 1/2 second off with Hoosiers, you're doing something wrong. Either driving (takes time to trust them or could be your driving style), or car set-up including pressures and alignment. If you think the Toyos are faster, then race with them. As far as Hoosier durability, are you properly heat cycling the tires?

She has moved away because more Miatas are being built up and there is no one to run against. What is the point of that? More money, more complexity, less reliability, less competition.

I race and work on my car because I continually want to get faster and faster. Isn't that a big point of racing cars? Besides, you should always have plenty of drivers to race with.

1.6 L

At Lime Rock I'd say the 1.6L is the car to have.