48 replies to this topic

[Todd Tagget]

Ok total newbie here (so be kind). After you guys get through the obvious ( maximizing HP, alignment, brake drag, new hubs).. What other things are critical for "a well set up" SM ??
What items take a car from mid/back pack to a front runner? This of course assumes that we take the driver out of the equation as well.
Oh and I already have special grease on order.

[Cnj]

Ok total newbie here (so be kind). After you guys get through the obvious ( maximizing HP, alignment, brake drag, new hubs).. What other things are critical for "a well set up" SM ??
What items take a car from mid/back pack to a front runner? This of course assumes that we take the driver out of the equation as well.
Oh and I already have special grease on order.

Todd, what you are trying to achieve with your question? Are you hoping for some special car secrets that will bring you to the front of the pack independent of driving skill? Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your post.

Cnj.

[Rob Burgoon]

Ok total newbie here (so be kind). After you guys get through the obvious ( maximizing HP, alignment, brake drag, new hubs).. What other things are critical for "a well set up" SM ??
What items take a car from mid/back pack to a front runner? This of course assumes that we take the driver out of the equation as well.
Oh and I already have special grease on order.

Getting a pro engine is a big deal. I wish I did that sooner. In california, that and setup will get you to the front if you can drive fairly well.

[MPR22]

Tires, tires, tires.

[Ron Alan]

I will assume you are talking Regional level because at the runoff level you'll need the entire package and some luck to win!

At the regional level, good drivers finish well with crap cars and great cars finish in the back with slow drivers. You are lucky Todd to be in a region with a lot of good drivers and a very deep field...when you get out here you are going to have a blast! Seat time should be your first priority right now...and lots of it But as far as the car goes, look at it this way. Rolling resistance(bearings), stopping ability(brakes), grip(tires), cooling, set up(which correlates to grip) and HP. HP is great but a huge part of a budget as a rookie and the least important in my opinion. Why I say this is because by the time you learn to really drive a Miata, you'll need to replace that HP motor. We are finishing top 5 in Region now and 2 poles with the original stock motor with the head done and fuel pressure. The motor is very good but not great...but yet it almost won the last regional(P2 finish) with a great driver(loaned the car) against some of the best competion the West coast has to offer with some very stout motors!!!. My point is you'll know when its time to really throw down the bucks...and even then it is a crap shoot on if its worth it!

The best money we spent when we started was purchasing a predictive lap timer(Rumblestrip)which is instant feedback and an incredible tool(cheap speed!!!!! ) The current top 10 drivers in SFR SM did not start there or hardly get there their first year.

If you watch the video Darin posted(passing 37 cars)you will see a lot of drag races with cars that finished in the back half of the pack...and if there is much power difference it's hardly noticable, What you do see is better exit speed and later braking...not really the car per say!

Speedy recovery and hope to see you out soon!

[Todd Tagget]

Todd, what you are trying to achieve with your question? Are you hoping for some special car secrets that will bring you to the front of the pack independent of driving skill? Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your post.

Cnj.

Cnj,
I'm trying to develop a check list for the things that time and money allow.. HP is a no brainer, I've already figured out a Torsen is on the short list, just trying to figure out what else constitutes "a well set up car" .
Ron, thanks for the Rumblestrip tip,, I saw my first one of those last weekend at TH in a rental of the student I was instructing.
I'm out of the hospital and at my son's house so the worst if behind me.. Should be back in the drivers seat in a couple weeks if all goes well!!!

[Jim Boemler]

Tops on my list is video. I record every session. A close second is data acquisition. Your memory is faulty, trust me, and it pays to be able to go back and see what really happened.

In doing video, you want a rock-solid mount, not one of these IO-Port generic thingies. By solid, I mean that you should be able (and willing) to take the hard top off your car and stand on top of the mount without it moving. Do that, turn off the stabilization, and you'll get great video.

[DrDomm]

Tires, tires, tires.

Can you elaborate?

I would think that as a newbie (like me), these are down the list. I'm not looking for the last 0.5s/lap. I'm looking to get within 1 sec (2 sec on large tracks) of the leaders.

My take on tires right now, is that I need to learn the right pressures/temps. I need to learn how to push them enough to get the most grip, and get used to that feeling. I was under the assumption that the Hoosiers should be effective (though not their quickest) throughout the tread life. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I totally agree with the comments on video and then data. Not just your own of either. You need to look at other drivers video, and eventually compare data. Video is a good, easy place to start. YouTube.

[Tom Hampton]

In doing video, you want a rock-solid mount, not one of these IO-Port generic thingies. By solid, I mean that you should be able (and willing) to take the hard top off your car and stand on top of the mount without it moving. Do that, turn off the stabilization, and you'll get great video.

I have one of those generic ioport thingies, and I was just noticing some bounce in my last couple of videos. Care to recommend something specific? I have a gopro camera, so I'm not trying to mount anything "heavy".

[tako]

http://www.racerpart...mcorder_Mounts2

I use this with gopro and tripod mount, very happy with video quality..solid-no bounce at all. You don't need to use that strap either

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Ok total newbie here (so be kind). After you guys get through the obvious ( maximizing HP, alignment, brake drag, new hubs).. What other things are critical for "a well set up" SM ??
What items take a car from mid/back pack to a front runner? This of course assumes that we take the driver out of the equation as well.
Oh and I already have special grease on order.

I did what i beleive most people do... I spent lots of money on my car, new hubs, brakes, engine, all kids of shaved tires, etc, etc. I know Drago, was loving it as I was sending him money on a weekly basis, but as I was doing all this he kept telling me the real truth, that part I didnt want to hear, you dont really need that new part "Just Learn How To Drive It"

While I both agree and disagree with Jim on that very statement, and in hind sight I would say this, I should have invested in Data earlier, I should have learned how to interpret the data earlier, I should have gotten coaching earlier, and I should have waited to spend money on the car till later.

Having a fast car doesnt make for a quick ROI, Coaching IMO is the best and fasted ROI, DAta a close second. There are plenty of guys that I am driving 4 seconds a lap faster than right now and they can damn near run with me down the straightaway. The Nutt behind the wheel is the most important part of going fast... All those other parts are very important in winning races, but you will never win a race in SM if you cant drive as well as everyone else up front.

[Rob Burgoon]

Having a fast car doesnt make for a quick ROI, Coaching IMO is the best and fasted ROI, DAta a close second. There are plenty of guys that I am driving 4 seconds a lap faster than right now and they can damn near run with me down the straightaway. The Nutt behind the wheel is the most important part of going fast... All those other parts are very important in winning races, but you will never win a race in SM if you cant drive as well as everyone else up front.

You gotta have all the pieces to do well in this class. Driver, setup, power, tires. Missing any one of those means you're probably not going to win. Which ones you're currently weak in will vary from person to person.

[Danny Steyn]

Todd,
I started 4 years ago, and there were several key items that affected my progression. Obviously a good car / engine is required, so let's get that out of the way.

1. I started racing under the OPM tent, and so I was immediately within a group of drivers that were way faster than me. (Lamb, Fowler, Macki, Cottrell, Pombo's and others) they were all willing to share their data and generously offered tips on how to go faster. RUN WITH A TEAM IF U CAN. Will be so much harder to do as a lone independent.
2. Fowler was always there to listen to and interpret my feedback after every session, and would make the necessary setup changes. I knew nothing about the car then and could not have made the improvements that he was able to do. FIND A GOOD SETUP MAN
3. I invested in data acquisition immediately, and that proved to be the best BS detector for me. I could immediately see where I needed to focus attention.
4. I also invested in video. I found that there was only so much data I could look at before I nodded off, but the video allowed me to remain engaged for much longer, and so I spent more time in the data analysis.

And then it's a relentless mission to pursue all the smaller details. But if you do those 4 above I feel that you will make rapid progress.

Anyway that's what worked for me, YMMV!

[dstevens]

I started 4 years ago, and there were several key items that affected my progression.

The secret is the paint. I'm sure of it....

Good post Danny.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

yes all these ideas are fine buy there are some other fine points missed.

play alot of vidio games hand eye or sports.

drink alot everything seams faster .

in kewbbs house alot of porn that makes him really fast.

all kidding aside many way too go fast there is not one magic fast button but most drivers who are fast have optical testicular vision

this mean that your balls are bigger than your eyes

[Michael Colangelo]

I'm in a similar boat as the OP. Lots of good advice here. Thanks!

After 2.5 years tracking/racing a CRX (fwd car), I have to relearn how to drive a Spec Miata!

I've always liked this article from Grassroots Motorsports. It put things in perspective for me:
http://grassrootsmot...pros-vs-schmoes

[William Bonsell]

What a great article Mike! Have already sent it to my email for saving. Good seeing you yesterday at The Ridge yesterday and look forward to Portland.

Bill-

[Todd Tagget]

This is all great stuff,,, (and didn't have to buy any of you a beer!!). Gonna order my rumblestrip next week..

[Todd Green]

This is all great stuff,,, (and didn't have to buy any of you a beer!!). Gonna order my rumblestrip next week..

Personally I'd buy a full blown data acq system with dash that does predictive timing. When you are ready you can add in additional sensors like throttle position, steering angle, brake pressure (you can somewhat cheat these with lat/lon g's to save $$ and not have data overload at the beginning), record your temps/pressures, shock travel etc.etc. if you want to get really sophisticated.

WRT your original question, I know you said you wanted to eliminate the driver, and I'm 100% for working on both the car and the driver. After all we have long periods of down time between races, but don't get caught up in the car too much. A good motor, fresh rubber, and a decent setup with a top driver will let you run at the front in most regional races. The key is top driver. As a newbie try to focus on your driving. If you really think it is your car get one of the fast shoes in your region that you trust to take your car out during a practice session (or test-n-tune day) and see what he thinks and what lap times he can turn.

See paragraph above why you should get a full data acq and not some simple lap timer. Comparing your data with a hot shoes will open your eyes. You can't get that from just a lap time. I also agree with the others on having video. IMO it is just another "data acq" channel and one near the top of the list at that.

[Tom Hampton]

I haven't contributed to this thread, yet...because, I'm either in the same boat or maybe even behind you....I don't know. Certainly, everyone else posting has immeasurably more experience in getting to the top, and helping others get there, too.

Regardless, I decided to chime in...for whatever its worth. My journey has been reasonably well chronicled here and on my external blog. But, the highlights are, I have a '92 with maybe as many horsepower (maybe not). Last year, I bought a Racepak G2X data system that has lat/long Gs, and GPS for speed/positions/etc, and predictive lap timing. I also have a GoPro HD. I just got back from the track, where I set a new PR of 2:19.7...I'm still 13 seconds off the front runner pace. But, I'm also down 25+ HP. I'm only a couple mph of mid-corner speed from that 2:06 lap, but my corner entry speeds SUCK!!!! I'm slowing 5+ mph (some corners 10+) below mid-corner speeds during braking, and having to accelerated back to mid-corner speeds. Without the data, I'd have a much harder time finding that out....with data it stands out like a sore thumb.

I agree with Todd Green. Get a DAQ with a lap timer. A rumble strip is 1/2 or more of a used DAQ system. Why double up the expense?

The lap timer is nice, but it will only tell you where you are slow compared to YOU. Its great for consistency, and when you spontaneously (or intentionally) do something different, you can see the results. But, it won't compare you to someone else. A decent DAQ and a little understanding of what to look for can tell you where you are giving away time. It also allows comparison to other drivers...kind of like a virtual lead-follow. It increases the value of every lap spent on the track because you can learn from what you did (right and wrong) long after leaving the track.

I don't plan to do anything to the engine until I'm consistently holding the same (or similar) corner speeds as my future competitors. Unless it just sh-!@#@$#'s the bed. I'll add bolt-ons here and there, but only ones that can be reused on a new engine whenever I get one.

Video is good because it allows you to see the "why", where the data only shows you "what". I'd rather have data than video (I think), but they really go hand in hand. If the camera were setup just so, and could see the dash, hands, and feet....I might go with just video.