48 replies to this topic

[Ron Alan]

Just to clarify, I agree with all who mentioned data/predictive timer as the best way to go. But as serious budget minded racers the $300+ vs $1200+ limited our option! But as an instant feedback tool, you cannot beat the bang for your buck with the rumblestrip. And when your ready to spend the big bucks...it will be worth something to another track newbie. I keep hoping someone local will offer up their traqmate(less than new!) when they're ready to move on! For now we are still relying on that up close and personal data acquisition called follow the leader and let your eyes and butt do the acquiring

[Danny Steyn]

Personally I'd buy a full blown data acq system with dash that does predictive timing.

Todd - absolutely agree - just one quick look at your Velocity-Time graph compared to a front runner will INSTANTLY tell you not only what you have to do but also how to do it. No predictive lap timer can do that. And that's just the surface of a Data Acquisition system

I also forgot to mention to add one more SIGNIFICANT item to my original list of what got me up to speed - so here is my revised list

• I started racing under the OPM tent, and so I was immediately within a group of drivers that were way faster than me. (Lamb, Fowler, Macki, Cottrell, Pombo's and others) they were all willing to share their data and generously offered tips on how to go faster. RUN WITH A TEAM IF U CAN. Will be so much harder to do as a lone independent.
• Fowler was always there to listen to and interpret my feedback after every session, and would make the necessary setup changes. I knew nothing about the car then and could not have made the improvements that he was able to do. FIND A GOOD SETUP MAN
• I invested in data acquisition immediately, and that proved to be the best BS detector for me. I could immediately see where I needed to focus attention. GET A QUALITY DATA SYSTEM
• I also invested in video. I found that there was only so much data I could look at before I nodded off, but the video allowed me to remain engaged for much longer, and so I spent more time in the data analysis. GET A DECENT VIDEO SYSTEM
• I maximized my seat time at every event. I ran the regional, the Pro-IT, the Enduro and every possible race I could do at the track. In my first year I attended 17 events but actually competed in 41 races, 6 of them 1-1/2 hour enduros, and I averaged 4 test sessions before every race day. Sure the costs add up, but for a lot of us it is the time and travel commitment that is the largest sacrifice, so you might as well get as much out of it as you can. Take a look at Drago, Sandlin, Berry, Charbonneau et al. All racing all kinds of combinations of events at any weekend including SM, STL, SRF, IT and more. MAXIMIZE YOUR SEAT TIME.

And then it's a relentless mission to pursue all the smaller details. But if you do those 4 above I feel that you will make rapid progress.

[granracing]

41 races? Damn! (Wondering how many races in total I've done. LOL)

As a novice, your focus should be having a safe, reliable, decent car. I realize you said leave the driver out of this, but that's the core to being successful in this game. Danny mentions an optimum situation and sure would get you going much faster, sooner. Quality driver coaching is so helpful in many ways (on-track driving, mental aspects). If your budget forces you to decide between several races, getting coaching, or a "pro" motor, go for the driver aspects. When you think you're a fast driver, have won some races, get more coaching. Especially at regional races, I bet several people here such as Danny could jump in a well set-up car with a crate engine and run up front / win.

Use all available tools that can make you a better racer including mental imagery. Don't forget to have fun!! (Something I need to remind myself to do.)

[Rob Burgoon]

41 races? Damn! (Wondering how many races in total I've done. LOL)

I've got that beat. 48 races in my 2009 rookie season.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Gotta eats lots of bananas for all those races... I am buying stock in Chiquita

[William Bonsell]

After two years of racing, and with a pretty healthy stock motor, I am convinced that once you are comfortable with the essential car set up, tires, etc, the absolute key to improving time, is entry speed. At least it is for me. You can be spot on with the line, early on the throttle, perfect exit....but if you scrub off too much speed by breaking early, it is all for naught. Especially at the end of longer straight sections.

I simply break too early and I know it! I have ton's of video showing following cars closing at corner entry. How you get over that impulse to get on the brakes early escapes me. I now race with my son, who does not have my problem, so during practices or T&T's, I try and follow him and learn from him. But, he's only 33 and well, I'm up there!! But, I keep pressing on.

Bill-

[CruzanTom]

I've got that beat. 48 races in my 2009 rookie season.

Last year was my first year racing - 52 races, plus many test days. I admit that I did not finish every race! Damn tire walls!

Unfortunately, work has gotten in the way of many of my race weekends this year (have to pay for those fenders).

[FTodaro]

People often say that its all about the exit speed, but to do that right you have to get the rest of it right too, meaning as you said don't over brake and have good mid corner speed, such that you can go to the gas early and get the exit speed. But in some corners you can over do the entry and mid corner speed as well.

I guess if it was easy we all would be running one, two three in every race.

Start eating more bananas or special grease.

[davew]

Put special grease on your banannas

Racing is a team sport. Even if you are a one man team, you need he proper support from outside sources and the ability to wear more than one hat at a time.

Look at the Sprints, all the top drivers are directly or indirectly part of a team.

Safety, if you are worried about getting hurt because you cut corners on safety equipment, you will never go fast

Reliability, if the car keeps breaking you will never go fast

Brakes, If you do not trust your brakes you will never go fast

Engine, if you don'y have an above average motor you will never go fast against above average competition. If you have an average motor, expect to finish well against average competition.

Make friends whom you can trust. They will let you know what you are doing right or wrong

Never get over your head. Just because driver x can go to the 2 marker, does not mean you can! If you normally brake at the 4 marker, try 3.5, then 3.0, then 2.75 etc. Crawl, walk, run.

Quality seat time. Just running around on a test day is turning money into noise. It may be fun, but it probably won't make you any faster. Have someone fast drive your car, get a coach, ask a local fast guy to watch you from a corner stand, ask him to follow you for 2 laps.

Spend money wisely. When a small diff blows up, get a Torsen not another small diff. When a trans goes, get a rebuilt not a junk yard. Test only when you have something to test or have help as listed above. Do not skimp on tires. 3 year old tires may be black and round, but they won't be fast.

Minimum lap timer, better add video, better make it data, best data and video. Then learn how to use it. And have something to compare it to. Trying to go faster through turn 1 may not be possible, maybe your problem corner is turn 4. Working on turn 1 will not make you faster. But until you learn what to work on, you won't get any benefit from the data.

Also bolting data into the car does not make you faster. It is a tool that you must learn how to use. Or, pay someone to analyse it for you. I own a circular saw and a claw hammer, I do not claim to be a carpenter.

And read my book ;-)

Dave

[Todd Green]

But, I'm also down 25+ HP.

At our last race I'd just put in an AFR sensor/gauge etc. I (apparently) didn't line the exhaust back up properly, and it was banging on the chassis. The engine was also sounding really weird. I assumed in the rush I didn't get a gasket lined up and had an exhaust leak. Turned out the front cylinder was missing, because I'd also mucked with the plug wires. So between the banging exhaust, me trying to watch the fancy AFR gauge in the corners, and running on 3 cylinders I was 2 seconds off my normal pace.

Next weekend I was helping one of our new guys who's 10+ seconds off the pace (on a ~2.2 mile track). It was a rental car with a passenger seat, bone stock 100k+ mile motor. The person I was helping is 200+ lbs (he said 200, I'm guessing 220 ) riding shotgun and there was 40 lbs of ballast already in the car. So much that the rear tires were rubbing heavily. With all that I was 4 seconds off laps times in my car (and I was .2 off the track record.) in the few laps I did in the first session to show him the line.

Motor is important to get that last bit out. It isn't nearly as important as everyone thinks (again at your average regional race weekend.) I know it is a cliche, but everyone thinks they are being "motored by", when most likely they are getting killed on exit speed. Well that and the special grease in the hubs.

Ideally you'd do both, but if you can only do one, I'd opt for coaching/driver work over motor any day. Besides if you have a top pro motor that's one less excuse to pull out when you do poorly.

[Jim Drago]

Great points Dave!! All very accurate..

The one thing that I think only comes with seat time and experience is the level of "excitement in the car" and heart rate. I know when I started the nerves, excitement and anxiety would all get me.. The sooner you can become calm in the car the better. The guys you are racing are just as silly as you are, no one you are racing is a super hero, regardless how many posts they have here or on dickyspeed.com I realize this is probably not a very helpful speed secret, but the thing that benefits me the most IMO is experience. At this point in my racing "career", I seldom get rattled, never nervous at the start anymore etc. I believe that attitude enables you to make far better decisions and drive a better race. A good example was at Homestead this year, with 2 laps to go I was tracking down Charboneau.. He was waiving to me in the braking zones, I was waiving back, all at 10/10ths and both of laughing in the car. I think that level of calm is what is needed to get the most out of the car.

At the front, races are rarely about pure speed, that is what is qualifying is for. The races are about minimizing mistakes, making good decisions and having a great strategy. Most all racing mistakes are mental mistakes or lack of concentration, rarely physical mistakes.

[davew]

I have Tommy Kendalls AllSport Trans Am car here in the shop. I have been working on this car for years. We where at Watkins Glen for a vintage race with this car. Tommy just happened to be Grand Marshall of the event. So he came by the tent a couple times a day to hide out from the autograph seakers.

We got into a conversation about what seperates the pro driver from an amateur driver. His immediate response was that pro drivers make just as many mistakes as the club racer. They just realise it sooner and respond sooner. When I turn in too early for a corner, it takes almost to the apex before I figure out what I did. TK turns in too early and reacts before he is done turning the wheel. Thus his mistake is minimalised before it effects the car.

One of my drivers came up with a very true statement.

You have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I think this is very true.

Driving a race car is all mental. We all have the physical ability to push the gas pedal and turn the steering wheel. We have to learn the exact moment to do each.

dave

[FTodaro]

Jim That post was almost tailored for me. This is not a response per se to going fast but the process is important. To me you first have to start with decent equipment, we can spend pages of talking about what makes a car good, lets say for discussion you have a good car. the next step from my standpoint is to learn how to drive it fast. But even that is only good for qualifying. Then you need to learn how to drive fast in traffic, again coming down to seat time and putting yourself in that situation and getting comfortable doing it.

Once you can drive decent and drive through traffic you need to get the experience of driving up front. Two thinks come to mind, Starting on the pole or near it and leading a race. The only way to get this experience is to put yourself there. I had a chance to lead a national race for the first time this year. Charbs was behind me waiving (like you said, or i think it was waiver or finger flying) but I did not handle it as casually as you did, sad to say, as Charbs could only put it, I folded like a chair.

It all comes down to putting your time in getting that experience. I have said it before if it were that easy we all would be doing it.

Now back to the special grease.

[davew]

Frank, not to belittle you.

I was on the radio at M-O with Voytek and Tom Brown. When you came around I told them to be patient as you where not used to being out front at this level and would make a mistake. It took you about 4 corners to make that mistake. This is extremely predictable. You will learn from it and not make the same mistake again.

This is another secret to going fast. Learn from your mistakes. Better yet, learn from other peoples mistakes.

Dave

[FTodaro]

Frank, not to belittle you.

I was on the radio at M-O with Voytek and Tom Brown. When you came around I told them to be patient as you where not used to being out front at this level and would make a mistake. It took you about 4 corners to make that mistake. This is extremely predictable. You will learn from it and not make the same mistake again.

This is another secret to going fast. Learn from your mistakes. Better yet, learn from other peoples mistakes.

Dave

Dave I am sorry that I was that predictable but i think i can safely say i was not the first to have that happen.

[Brandon]

Not to pile-on but I think what everyone is driving (heh) at are these high-level bullet-points:

• Have a safe & solid car (it doesn't have to be built to the maximum extent of the rules but it MUST be safe/reliable/repeatable!)
• Find reliable & reputable people to perform the following duties: car prep, coaching, repair
• Seat time, seat time, seat time
• Gather observable data for analysis; whether it's actual DAQ or rudimentary Rumblestrip or basic video have "something" to review
• Did we mention seat time?
• Have a realistic* goal for each session

HTH,
Brandon

* - realistic for your current state. If you know you're down on power relative to the front runners there's no chance you'll be reaching their lap times before fixing that. Plus you may find yourself overdriving in an attempt to get there. Scale back the immediate goal to something like "...improving by .5 seconds by the end of the weekend..." or "...finish ahead of the guy 2 spots in front of me from last race..." No sense in trying to fit the whole cow in your mouth when it's sized for something more like a 6 oz. fillet.

[Qik Nip]

Todd:
A book was written a few years back that touted what I recall the author called the "10,000 hour rule". The book chronociled a very long list of unquestioned leaders in various fields of sports, music, and other endeavors. It put forth a compelling case that postulated that to become REALLY accomplished at any complex task takes 10,000 hours of practice.

There's no doub that all the ideas shared here are valid ways to get faster, but seat time is the best return for the dollar. My guess is that if Drago and or Danny swapped thier absolutely top level cars with you, they'd better you by ten seconds on a two minute per lap track. If you ran a few hundred laps on that track (in race traffic), you'd likely cut the deficit in half. The bottom line is that you need to spend a lot of time racing. Track days and instruction from a talented driving coach are both wonderful for learning how to run fast laps, but racecraft is really only acquired by racing ... a lot of it.
Rick

[Jim Boemler]

Hit the track in different cars. For a while I was racing the SM, and doing track days in a Z06. Very different cars, but I found that I'd learn things in one that I could use in the other. I think you learn something different from every car.

[davew]

Dave I am sorry that I was that predictable but i think i can safely say i was not the first to have that happen.

Don't be sorry. I have done it myself. I live in a house with windows, I do not throw stones.

[Caveman-kwebb99]