22 replies to this topic

[xczach]

The top 4 at June Sprints were all East Street guys!!! Pretty cool seeing a 1.6 win, hopefully that wasn't a fluke...

[High Chair]

No! They are good but there are others that are just as good (or better in my opinion). However besides the East Street cars who else was there that really had a shot (engine wise). When compared to other Nationals it was a pretty weak field of the top engine builders. There were 4 East Street cars, 1 Rossini powered car (that has struggled this year), and a couple other cars with different engines. A bunch of people run Jeff's engines from Autotechniks. He uses Stewart to do the head work and does the bottom end himself. East Street and Autotechniks in my opinion have the best engines out there right now and their cars constantly make up the majority of the top ten in any National race they go to. And no the 1.6 was not a fluke. Todd is a very good driver and that 1.6 is a very good car. I have raced side by side with him many times and always felt that his car was equal to mine. He shows what a good 1.6 can do in the hands of really good driver.

[William Keeling]

Hope to have some XFactor Performance at the runoffs to give the others a run

[Marc Cefalo]

Hmmm. When I saw todds car at vir, the cage had a bsi plate by the back window welded in just like every other bsi car.... It was under the opm tent for prep and support and when talking with Rossini, neither one of us had a clue who built the motor.

I'm sure Todd, Fowler or señor Drago can clarify what package is actually under the hood.....

On a side note, we've used Stewart for numerous years building our motors top to bottom. I've met him personally, along with the staff and just downright enjoy dealing with him. After installing and dynoing twenty+ motors in house, I can tell you the stuff is extremely consistent in terms of power.....like 1-2 wheel hp for each version of miata engine.

The gap amongst the builders is getting smaller each year. For us it comes down to who can deliver the best motor, on time with no b.s.

[Jim Drago]

hmm.. I know Mike Rossini to be one of the most honorable guys in SM and I know that he is aware exactly what engine is in Todds car, so your post is a little confusing to me. As a matter of fact, I think everyone in the SE and 99% of this board knows who built Todds engine.

OPM takes care of Todds car and does a great job. BSI built Todds car several years ago for Todds wife Debby. Todd sent us the car last year to go completely through it and get it up to speed as it was basically wore out. I usually only do cars from the ground up. I took Todds car in as he is a friend and I wanted to prove a point. The point being that a good 1.6 with a good driver can compete ANYWHERE. Point proven. ( long before this weekend BTW, Todd has competing against the best in the SE for awhile )

As Jamie said, there are MANY building good engines, We are fortunate to have great cars and very good drivers that showcase our product. It takes FAR more than a great motor. It takes a great car, a great driver, set up and a great engine. I have been saying that for YEARS! That being said, I feel confident saying that NO one builds a better engine than we do, the results prove that point. A few are just as good, but none better, the rules don't allow it.
HP is a big part of Road America, but many dismiss the track as a big dyno etc, it is far more than that and far more technical than most would ever imagine. Going "fast" there is pretty easy, going really fast there is VERY hard. Unfortunately, the dyno sections are connected by these things called corners, getting a great exit off of these seemingly "easy" corners is anything but easy. I think Todd would be the first to admit that after this weekend. Many who don't do well at Raod America, blame motor as that is the easiest thing to blame.

Todd was in third before the incident in the kink Two other East Street cars were 1-2 I also had at least six other engines the field, three for an absolute certainty were better than mine and Berry's, two of them finished outside the top ten. I feel like I could win with the best of many engine builders products, so could many others that drive my cars. I obviously prefer our cars as we do all and the complete package is obviously one of the best out there. The facts are the facts, our cars are doing VERY well, have been for a LONG time, but the engine is but one piece of the puzzle.

If you want to know about our engines or any other engine builder, check the results and get references from their customers, do your homework.

[Tom Sager]

Road America has a way of magnifying even tiny gaps in car/driver combinations. A small handling problem or lack of a draft or circumstances during the race that separate cars can be difficult to overcome and yes the driver makes a big difference. My observation from this weekend is that straight line performance among the 4 types of cars (1.6, 1.8, '99 and '01+) was closer than I have seen dare I say ever. Seeing the East Street cars up front all weekend to me is a display of a well coordinated team effort, on-track cooperation, excellent preparation and driving. No doubt those cars get from one corner to the next with the best of them but most of the difference between winning and 10th place or even further back at this event is not under the hood IMO.

With all the focus on motors at this event, I think tires could be a subject of equal interest. I for one don't feel I have cracked the code on pressures or alignment yet since we made the move to Hoosier in SCCA. I like the tire but so far this year to me feels a little like '09 when we ran on 888's. Still experimenting with pressures and such.

[DrDomm]

Let me ask a slightly different question about motors. Assuming comparable power/torque from all the major players (Eaststreet, Race Engineering, Stewart, Rossini, etc.), what about reliability? Am I naive in thinking that aside from leaning out the air/fuel ratio too much, even "Pro" motors should be very reliable? Said another way, are these "Pro" motors pushed too far in the search for 1-2hp that reliability suffers?

Just curious. I'm not to the point where a few hp really affect my lap time.

[Tom Sager]

Let me ask a slightly different question about motors. Assuming comparable power/torque from all the major players (Eaststreet, Race Engineering, Stewart, Rossini, etc.), what about reliability? Am I naive in thinking that aside from leaning out the air/fuel ratio too much, even "Pro" motors should be very reliable? Said another way, are these "Pro" motors pushed too far in the search for 1-2hp that reliability suffers?

Just curious. I'm not to the point where a few hp really affect my lap time.

Our motors even pro built should be very reliable. Basically we use a stock engine running within factory designed RPM. I don't know who builds to outer limits of bearing clearances but I think most build with longevity in mind. Probably more to be gained from careful selection of parts, measuring and assembly than there is from crazy loose bearing clearances. My first pro built motor went 4 seasons strong before the bottom end needed rebuilding and this current one is 1.5 seasons old with near perfect leakdown and consistent oil pressure.

Can't speak for a 1.6 but 1.8 and '99 don't benefit power-wise from dangerously lean tune from what I've seen.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I have to say, after running East Street engines, since the middle of 2010. My car has been one of the best cars each and every weekend, it has given me the chance to set on the pole multiple times and podium regularly. The power is part of the equation for me other part which is intangible is the service I have recieved from East Street, Jim has gone over and above what I beleive any engine or car builder should normally be expected to go through for customer support and service. After personaly meeting Jeff Labounty, I can say he is another person in the SM market that I feel I could trust to get me to the front and keep me there. The others mentioned are engine builders, not builders of these cars also, which I think gives them a distinct advantage when it comes to serving their respective customers.

Jim and Jeff both, while tallented drivers in their own rights, have many talented drivers that are competing with their products, and the RESULTS speak for themselves. Drivers like Charbs, Tucker, Berry, Sandlin, Buras, could all afford to buy a car or engine from anyone in the country. So the only real question is why are they buying what they are buying. It seems easy to me, they want every legal competitive advantage which both can offer. As a newby that is how I made my decision and I have never regretted it.

[tburas56]

My East Street racing motor in my 1.6 has 1927 racing miles on it; I have a little A D D thing working
I had Jim seal the motor in my car Middle of 2011; didn't want to have any issues.
The car was built in 2005 by BSI and maintained by OPM Autosports and East Street Racing.

[DrDomm]

Good to hear about longevity.

[Bench Racer]

As I stated in an earlier post the 2012 June Sprints race was a fantastic race by the front five. I watched from T5 bleechers also viewing T14 & up the hills. Never knew who would be what position at either track location or how long the position would be held.

Video please from a front 5.

Mr. Buras, you as a non practice day driver at Road America showed me that a 1.6 can do the job. Up the hill from T5 & T14 was something I've never viewed from a 1.6.

Congratulations on your WIN in a one point six.

[High Chair]

To be honest I am a little biased towards Jeff as we are close friends but I have had the same engine in my car for 2+ years now (two log books) and I do not plan on pulling it out anytime soon; Von C is over a year. I could probably ring out a few more HPs if I leaned it more but I really did not want to hurt the engine so I left it where it was with the old plate. I am sure there are a lot of good builders out there but the three that I would use and not think twice about would be East Street, Autotechniks, or Stewart. All three seem to make very similar power with East Street having a very small advantage (in my opinion but no data to back it up) but the other two are very close and incredibly reliable. As far as knowing who built the engine for the 1.6; it is common knowledge. Buras has a good engine, good car, and he can drive so it was not a surprise to see him upfront. He would have been in the same spot in a good 99 as well. Rossni also builds a good engine and is one of the nicest guys however the only front running car that runs his engines that I know of is Danny so it is hard to tell how his engines stack up at the National level.

[davew]

The engine in Voyteks car is the same engine we used at the Runoffs last year. Approximately 20 races including 13 hours at VIR. And over 1200 dyno pulls.

Reliability should not be an issue

dave

[Rob Burgoon]

Let me ask a slightly different question about motors. Assuming comparable power/torque from all the major players (Eaststreet, Race Engineering, Stewart, Rossini, etc.), what about reliability? Am I naive in thinking that aside from leaning out the air/fuel ratio too much, even "Pro" motors should be very reliable? Said another way, are these "Pro" motors pushed too far in the search for 1-2hp that reliability suffers?

Just curious. I'm not to the point where a few hp really affect my lap time.

Over 80 hours on my Race Engineering engine and I just won a SM national with it.

[granracing]

It takes FAR more than a great motor. It takes a great car, a great driver, set up and a great engine.

Well said.

(I happen to be a huge fan of Kessler Engineering myself and know that if I lose, it's not the motor's fault.)

[john mueller]

... there are MANY building good engines, We (East Street) are fortunate to have great cars and very good drivers that showcase our product. It takes FAR more than a great motor. It takes a great car, a great driver, set up and a great engine.

Yup

[Jim Drago]

And a little racing luck

[tburas56]

As I stated in an earlier post the 2012 June Sprints race was a fantastic race by the front five. I watched from T5 bleechers also viewing T14 & up the hills. Never knew who would be what position at either track location or how long the position would be held.

Video please from a front 5.

Mr. Buras, you as a non practice day driver at Road America showed me that a 1.6 can do the job. Up the hill from T5 & T14 was something I've never viewed from a 1.6.

Congratulations on your WIN in a one point six.

Thanks. I wish I could take all the credit. My first session I was on suicide watch, was 2 sec off the pace. This not just a motor game, again I have to thank Opm, east street and Danny's on track efforts for pulling my head out of my bottom. The whole weekend Tom Opm got the car better and better; entry, center, off. It is also nice to have good teammates Traqmate data so I can tell where I am being a donkey

[Jim Daniels - FIG]

I don't understand the topic but ill take whatever Pat uses.