23 replies to this topic

[MaxKoff]

Hello All,

In preparing for my next event at Daytona I have come upon a budgetary dilemma, visit the dyno for the first time or purchase a simple data aq. To give a little background I have built the car myself from an elderly lady's 1994 daily driver. Right now the engine has ~240,000 miles on it. I have only raced a couple weekends with the car, best finish being 4th at Sebring on the short course. I didn't really have much for the top 3 cars as they checked out after a couple laps into the race. I am racing on a budget as I cannot yet afford all of the extra amenities. That being said I would like to spend my money on what will yield the greatest value. Going into Daytona the tires are still fresh with only 3 heat cycles on them.

Dyno - Right now I have set the timing to ~ 14 degrees advanced and installed a FPR and a AFR wideband and tuned the car on the street/track accordingly. Obviously I am not going to be making the 120+ hp of the top guys but it would be nice to know where I stand and maybe squeeze out a little more power. I found a local shop that will dyno the car for $150 for the first hour and $100 for each hour after that.

Data Aq. - I am leaning toward buying th AIM Solo DL as it seems to be able to provide a most of the crucial channels (lat/long Gs, velocity/distance, racing line) for relatively little cost. One of my worries is that other than finding coasting sections, I won't be able to make immediate improvements by comparing my data with a faster driver.

I am open to all suggestions and hope you all impart your infinite wisdom in all things spec piñata.

Thanks,
Max

[Glenn]

Hello All,

In preparing for my next event at Daytona I have come upon a budgetary dilemma, visit the dyno for the first time or purchase a simple data aq. To give a little background I have built the car myself from an elderly lady's 1994 daily driver. Right now the engine has ~240,000 miles on it. I have only raced a couple weekends with the car, best finish being 4th at Sebring on the short course. I didn't really have much for the top 3 cars as they checked out after a couple laps into the race. I am racing on a budget as I cannot yet afford all of the extra amenities. That being said I would like to spend my money on what will yield the greatest value. Going into Daytona the tires are still fresh with only 3 heat cycles on them.

Dyno - Right now I have set the timing to ~ 14 degrees advanced and installed a FPR and a AFR wideband and tuned the car on the street/track accordingly. Obviously I am not going to be making the 120+ hp of the top guys but it would be nice to know where I stand and maybe squeeze out a little more power. I found a local shop that will dyno the car for $150 for the first hour and $100 for each hour after that.

Data Aq. - I am leaning toward buying th AIM Solo DL as it seems to be able to provide a most of the crucial channels (lat/long Gs, velocity/distance, racing line) for relatively little cost. One of my worries is that other than finding coasting sections, I won't be able to make immediate improvements by comparing my data with a faster driver.

I am open to all suggestions and hope you all impart your infinite wisdom in all things spec piñata.

Thanks,
Max

Data, track time, track time, track time, repeat until blows up or you get CONSISTANT, motor,....in that order

[Alex Bolanos]

Data Aq. - I am leaning toward buying th AIM Solo DL as it seems to be able to provide a most of the crucial channels (lat/long Gs, velocity/distance, racing line) for relatively little cost. One of my worries is that other than finding coasting sections, I won't be able to make immediate improvements by comparing my data with a faster driver.

Your worry is spot on. If you don't have anyone else with an AIM system to compare data with, you're only going to find really low hanging fruit (coasting, etc). I suggest a traqmate system and dyno time with the left over money.

[davew]

I am going to disagree with my friends Alex and Glenn.

It sounds like you have about $300 to spend. 2 hours of dyno or a $300 AIM Solo.

The AIm unit is a great piece. But it really does not give you enough info. And since your geographic area is very Taqmate dominated, you should use a traqmate. FYI, most of my drivers use AIM, if you lived up here, I would recomend AIM.

But a decent data system is going to outside your budget. I assume!

I would go to the dyno and see what you have. You will know for sure that your fuel pressure is adjusted properly and where you stand horsepower wise. If you have 105hp and are finishing 4th you are driving well. If you are 120 and finishing 4th you still have some driving work to do. But at least you will know where you stand and can start planning for the bigger purchases of motor and/or data.

Just my opinion
Dave

[Rob Burgoon]

I am going to disagree with my friends Alex and Glenn.

It sounds like you have about $300 to spend. 2 hours of dyno or a $300 AIM Solo.

The AIm unit is a great piece. But it really does not give you enough info. And since your geographic area is very Taqmate dominated, you should use a traqmate. FYI, most of my drivers use AIM, if you lived up here, I would recomend AIM.

But a decent data system is going to outside your budget. I assume!

I would go to the dyno and see what you have. You will know for sure that your fuel pressure is adjusted properly and where you stand horsepower wise. If you have 105hp and are finishing 4th you are driving well. If you are 120 and finishing 4th you still have some driving work to do. But at least you will know where you stand and can start planning for the bigger purchases of motor and/or data.

Just my opinion
Dave

Agreed. Go to the dyno and find out what you have so you can figure out how soon you need an engine.

[Alberto]

You should be able to get dyno time cheaper than that. Find out where the local SM guys take their cars for tuning. Up here in Nor Cal, MCE will dyno your car at the track for $59 an hour and tune for about $150 inclusive of dyno time, new spark plugs, set timing, adjust AFM. Another tuner that lives closer to civilization than the track will tune it for slightly more - I think around $200 or so.

Even when I've tuned my street car, I typically pay less than $100 an hour for dyno time with wideband.

I'll post my newbie experiences with the AIM later since I just had my first outing with it last week.

[Ken Wilkinson]

Max,
We met several years ago at a DE at Rd. Atlanta when your Dad brought his Cayman with a bald tire! You were fast then and I am sure you will be at the front quickly.
A data system will pay greater dividends over time and the best system is the one that is most popular in your area. Traqmate is very strong in the mid-Atlantic and southeast.
My guess is your best priority is to establish where you are right now with the car so you can then start budgeting needed improvements.
Give my best to your Dad and let me know if you make it up to VIR.
Ken

[MaxKoff]

Hey Ken! Thanks for the kind words. I think I'm leaning towards getting the car dyno'd (sp) first so I can either legitimize my engine excuse or find that I need to make up a new one. Meanwhile I will be searching for a used Traqmate. If anyone knows somebody looking to get rid of their Traqmate, let me know.

[Justin Baltrucki]

WIth 240K on the engine do you really need to spend money on a dyno to tell you it's not making top prep power?
Maybe these engines are just that solid??
If I only had $300 in the race car fund I would use it for an entry fee, but in the northeast it won't even cover that anymore.

[DrDomm]

If I only had $300 in the race car fund I would use it for an entry fee, but in the northeast it won't even cover that anymore.

Are there cheaper divisions? I should move.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

The NASA races in Texas are $295. SCCA races are expensive, but NASA is quite "economical".

[Justin Baltrucki]

Anyone ever compare traqmate "calculated horsepower" vs real horsepower?
With a weight of 2300 input - .57 Cdrag .046 friction from the tires = 127.7 HP. I know this is bogus for an SSM with a crate motor, but if you leave the settings alone and compare car to car can you spot the sweet one, or use it to spot a drop off in HP? Nasa was running traqmate units - was this a good way to spot the unusually strong cars?

[DrDomm]

The NASA races in Texas are $295. SCCA races are expensive, but NASA is quite "economical".

$350 to race at the premier road course in the northeast...good deal!

Hey if the OP's budget is around $300, I'd suggest a GoPro (next best thing to data).

[Mark Zwolle]

In my opinion you can count on the motor being at least a little low and if your not going to use the data to decide if your going to rebuild/replace the motor using the data from the dyno it might be a little waste of money.

With a 94 you can only legally make a couple changes, timing and fuel pressure - You cannot make changes inside the AFM of a 94.

Since you already have a wideband O2 sensor you can input that into the system and see how your fuel is.

The only other thing you can change is timing and it won't make a huge difference on an old motor - you're probably pretty close now.

I made big gains when I installed the Traqmate so I say go with a DAQ system - and in the SE the Traqmate is the most common.

[dstevens]

Agreed. Go to the dyno and find out what you have so you can figure out how soon you need an engine.

Yeah, but I'd do a leak down first because if it's too bad there is no sense dynoing a 240k mile engine.

[Rob Burgoon]

Yeah, but I'd do a leak down first because if it's too bad there is no sense dynoing a 240k mile engine.

True.

[granracing]

If I only had $300 in the race car fund I would use it for an entry fee

This, unless you are a data geek and truly enjoy / understand how to effectively use the data. The GoPro idea is a good one if you don't have video. hale, even just having it installed for proof of on-track incidents is worth it.

[Jim Drago]

I have to say the dyno ( even though I own one) would be a waste of time, at 240k and stock it is down, so what. Use your wideban and adjust FP to make sure it is safe and doesn't blow up and tuned close, run timing at 14/16 degrees at 900 rpm and let it go. If we are talking $300-500, save the money until you can buy a traqmate. ( many of us have the old displays for little or nothing, maybe you can just buy the rest for now and use the old display, I know i have three or four we dont use since buying the traqdash. So my advice is buy the traqmate first or do another weekend and get more seat time..
Good luck
Jim.

[MaxKoff]

_{Entry fees come first and foremost any leftover money is what I am discussing here. I already have a GoPro in the car, but that is a great suggestion for spending the ~$300. I guess the real dilemma I face, which I know has been discussed at great lengths earlier, is whether to continue racing knowing that the car isn't prepared to win and just rack up seat time or save up for a while and buy a motor. At Sebring I was around 1 second off the pace set by Jamie Tucker and Cory Collum. How much improvement would I see from a motor that is making ~10-20 more hp? (Obviously this is track dependent)}

[Rob Burgoon]

I don't have a lap time difference for you, but the biggest thing that horsepower does for me is turn impossible passes into easy passes.