36 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Lots always mentioned about SRF being so "spec" and equal and SM being "similar miata", not spec.. lots of winks and nods.. Yet every time I check, SM, is ALWAYS closer than SRF... As a class, we must be doing something right

Here are some times from the Runoffs, Top 10 in SM are within .9, SRF top 10 are about 1.8 seconds.. Top 12 in SM all within a second. We are ALWAYS closer,,, That and the SRF was twice as large, the top 15 should have been tighter than our top 10.. We get a bad wrap..

SRF

1 61 Brian Schofield 2:37.873 2 58 Cliff White 2:38.301 3 11 Mike Miserendino 2:38.563 4 21 Steve Fogg 2:38.583 5 17 Scott Rettich 2:38.633 6 24 Todd Harris 2:38.672 7 4 Denny Stripling 2:38.673 8 23 John Tipton 2:39.575 9 62 TJ Acker 2:39.601 10 69 Keith Verges 2:39.649




SM

1 2 Jim Drago East Street Racing /Saferracer 2:43.063 2 29 Craig Berry Berry Marble and Granite/EAST STREET 2:43.069
3 57 Alex Bolanos Autotechnik/Momo 2:43.166 4 58 L. Patrick Sandlin East St Racing / Community Mortgage 2:43.280 5 67 Andrew Charbonneau Auto Tecknick /Drago is my master racing 2:43.380 6 27 Tom Brown 2:43.474 7 09 Stephan Tisseront Ti-Speed Engineering/OPM 2:43.576 8 39 Danny Steyn ADEPT Studios/ROSSINI Engines/OPM 2:43.656 9 74 Matt Reynolds Reynolds Bros. Racing/Race Engineer 2:43.678 10 41 Voytek Burdzy Advanced Autosports 2:43.683 11 56 Todd Buras OPM AutoSports/East Street Racing 2:43.692
12 72 Chris Haldeman Phillips Race Prep/Complete Dent Re 2:43.910

[Charlie James]

Wow, that's actually very eye opening. Have always inherently known that about other classes, but would have thought different about SRF.

[Rob Burgoon]

Still Similar Miata. If you have cars with different engines and different weights, it's not spec. No winks and nods needed. The years drive the track just a little different.

Just for the fun of blowing holes in an argument, I wouldn't point at times on a drafting track to show off parity. However, it's strange that the SRF guys aren't tight together for the same reason. Don't they need to draft too?

[Jim Drago]

Fair enough.. I guess SRF is needs to be NSSRF "Not so similar racer ford" Top ten were in SM were pretty dam "spec", like it or not all very close. Maybe not spec by definition, but unbelievable close. All versions except the NA8A represented and had Sager been there I think he would have been in that group as well..

Had nothing to do with drafting, pull up any track you like and look at the results.. 90% we are closer. My point being, we have the best racing out there, despite all the small issues we think we have. I have not checked FV, they will be really close as well.
Jim

[Alex Bolanos]

Jeff and I made the mistake of trying to have this conversation with some SRF guys at several different bars throughout the week and they would look at us like we had 3 heads....

Agree that we aren't spec, Similar (prep) Miata is probably more fitting but the proof is there time and time again that SRFs are certainly not all created equal and farther apart in lap time. At least we can blame it on FOUR different engines spanning 15 years, what's their excuse?

[LarryKing]

Which class is cheaper to run at the front?

what's their excuse?

Non-spec talent?

[Jim Drago]

Sm without a doubt.. Unless you believe they all come just like you buy the kit from enterprises. Brian is definitely extremely talented driver, he also is always in one of the best cars, if not the best car in the field, year after year. ( that is part of it and I respect that) He spends more time with the cars than probably anyone else in any class. His car is ALWAYS one of the best in the field and always compliant. I don't think it is no so spec talent, many many talented guys in that class... Including Andrew... That tells me about all I need to know, car prep in SRF is very very big.

[Alex Bolanos]

Which class is cheaper to run at the front?

A new alternator with bracket and tensioner is almost $800...

[JRHille]

The srf runoffs race was super close though. Had a front pack of 6 or 7 for just about the entire race. Not saying this doesn't happen in SM, but it was really cool to watch!

[Jim Drago]

The srf runoffs race was super close though. Had a front pack of 6 or 7 for just about the entire race. Not saying this doesn't happen in SM, but it was really cool to watch!

Certainly a great race

[JRHille]

So is that race a rare form of SRF? Why is it that the field was so much tighter in the race? easier to turn lap after lap in the SRF than SM since SM qualifying times were closer?

[JRHille]

Not saying we don't have the best racing out there, just watching that srf race got me pretty excited.

The top 17 at NASA nationals qualifying were within a second, would be cool to see how close a 40 car srf field is at mid Ohio.

[Motor City Hamilton]

If the link works, here is a sample from this past weekend's SCCA regional at Mid-Ohio. SFR and SM in the same run group with a split grid. This was the most dry session of the weekend.

http://www.mylaps.co...0448&perclass=1

SM by Year
21 John Guthrie 1.6L 35 Frank Todaro 1999 51 Keith Hamilton 1994 17 Brian Murdick 1.6L 38 Dave Hechler 1.6L 60 Rick Deerwester 1.6L 99 James (Jet) Hawthorne 1999 65 Edwin Ho pre 1998 24 Jeff Buttrum 1999 31 Meredith Pritchard pre 1998 2 Chris Hammond 1999 36 Dave Metz 1999 8 Jeffrey Smith pre 1998 72 James Henson ? 66 Richard Strickland pre 1998 28 William Biel ?

[WhatsThatNoise]

If the link works, here is a sample from this past weekend's SCCA regional at Mid-Ohio. SFR and SM in the same run group with a split grid. This was the most dry session of the weekend.

http://www.mylaps.co...0448&perclass=1

I'm #80 in that race and I can say it is just talent. (and a good setup)
I have no doubt Scott Rettich could probably have won the race in my car even though my engine 8 years old and kind of tired.

And yes...The $800 alternator is true...So are the $300 hubs (each!) and some other things that you don't have to buy but help out if you don't ever want to have a failure. (The regular Alt is $80 and hubs are $100 but they break sometimes)

[Tom Sager]

My favorite SRF story is the one where a crew guy spent a couple nights in a hotel near SCCA's SRF shop in order to grab motor seal parts and other "discarded" items from the dumpster. Are we sure we want a sealed engine program?

[Jim Drago]

I guess the talent is deeper in SM than I thought since we are always closer

[LarryKing]

My favorite SRF story is the one where a crew guy spent a couple nights in a hotel near SCCA's SRF shop in order to grab motor seal parts and other "discarded" items from the dumpster. Are we sure we want a sealed engine program?

There will always be douchebags who work whatever system is in place. I think the goal should be to minimize those douchy advantages.

[Jim Drago]

That is the goal of both classes, for the most part it is very close. There will always be some.

That wasn't the intent of my original post. I think within the rules, there are still advantages in SRF that are equal or to or apparently larger than SM.. Not from first to last.. But when the top prepped SM's come to play and build to the rules etc, the cars seem as close or closer than top SRF's. I havent checked, but I would assume the back of SRF pack should be closer to overall times than the back SM pack.

[LarryKing]

As near as I can tell a brand new SRF from SCCA Enterprizes will set you back $27,500. When a top SM build is $30,000 - $35,000, how is SM cheaper?

[Jim Drago]

As near as I can tell a brand new SRF from SCCA Enterprizes will set you back $27,500. When a top SM build is $30,000 - $35,000, how is SM cheaper?

Is that assembled? You can buy a new SM for under 25,000 as well. You really need to compare apples to apples..