36 replies to this topic

[D Tesch]

Remember sm and srf don't even compare to the ultimate spec racing class, nascar. North American Spec Car Association Racing

[LarryKing]

You can buy a new SM for under 25,000 as well.

Are you having an "end of the year" sale?

Any "buy one, get one" deals?

[Glenn]

Which class is cheaper to run at the front?



Non-spec talent?

Ever seen the pile of used tires at the GY trailer with TONS of life left, but all the gription is gone.....

[LarryKing]

Yep, It's right next to the pile of Hoosiers

[WhatsThatNoise]

Here is a car that looks capable of winning the run-offs.

It has all the updates that you would need and what looks like a fresh engine for $18,500
(looks like a good deal at this price and I don't know the person who owns it)

http://specracer.com...c.php?f=4&t=417


A car you can use for regional racing can be had for about $13,500
A good car for running Nationals is about $16,000
A run-offs winning car for just under 20K
A new Enterprise car sells for 28K except I have never heard of anyone buying one in the last 3 years.

[Rob Burgoon]

You really need to compare apples to apples..

Agreed. $25,000 for a new SRF is probably not the "top SRF" build price.

[LarryKing]

OK, with assemply, a brand new SRF is $32,500. Straight from SCCA Enterprises website. Virtually equal to "top SMs" advertised on this site.

I must be missing something - if only SCCA Enterprises sells a new SRF - where does one buy a new "top SRF". Can you pay the SCCA an extra fee for a "top build"?

[WhatsThatNoise]

I don't know what you mean by "top build"

I suppose you could tell one of the CSRs (Customer Service Reps) to "max-out" a car for you but, it would basically be putting in a newly rebuilt engine & tranny along with a good setup. (camber, caster, toe, ride height, shock settings, bar, brake bias, tire pressure, fuel pressure, ect.)

(The updates are more for reliability than performance but you could add all sorts of expensive electronic dash stuff if you wanted)

Chassis #1 is as good as chassis # 9-hundred-something

This is last year's dyno results of the top 3 engines.(Enterprise takes your engine after the runoffs)
http://specracer.com...t=56&hilit=dyno

The window is plus or minus 1hp for SRF engines

[Glenn]

Yep, It's right next to the pile of Hoosiers

No cause I can sell the Hoosiers to the auto cross guys for $50/each

[MPR22]

I don't know what you mean by "top build"

I suppose you could tell one of the CSRs (Customer Service Reps) to "max-out" a car for you but, it would basically be putting in a newly rebuilt engine & tranny along with a good setup. (camber, caster, toe, ride height, shock settings, bar, brake bias, tire pressure, fuel pressure, ect.)

(The updates are more for reliability than performance but you could add all sorts of expensive electronic dash stuff if you wanted)

Chassis #1 is as good as chassis # 9-hundred-something

This is last year's dyno results of the top 3 engines.(Enterprise takes your engine after the runoffs)
http://specracer.com...t=56&hilit=dyno

The window is plus or minus 1hp for SRF engines

More interesting than the dyno numbers is the need for random pot shots at SM by SRF guys further into the post. Personally I have never heard an SM pilot talk about SRF but it appears there is some kind of rivalry.

[LarryKing]

No cause I can sell the Hoosiers to the auto cross guys for $50/each

They wouldn't buy GoodYears? Man, either you're expensive or I'm a deal, I ask $20-$25 (Toyo, Hoosier, PossumSquasher)

need for random pot shots at SM by SRF guys

Holy cow! Where were those? I missed that too?!

Maybe it 's not politically correct to say but if I had $30 k to spend on a racecar it wouldn't be an SM. (moot point, I don't see me having that much disposable income any time soon)

[WhatsThatNoise]

but it appears there is some kind of rivalry.

Yes...We were the biggest class in the SCCA until recently.
Then you folks stole it away from us...Some of our drivers are still not happy about that

Enterprise has hired trolls like me to infiltrate your organization and commit acts of sabotage.

[MPR22]

They wouldn't buy GoodYears? Man, either you're expensive or I'm a deal, I ask $20-$25 (Toyo, Hoosier, PossumSquasher)



Holy cow! Where were those? I missed that too?!

Maybe it 's not politically correct to say but if I had $30 k to spend on a racecar it wouldn't be an SM. (moot point, I don't see me having that much disposable income any time soon)

Politically correct or not we race what we can afford. If its an 8k used 1.6 then so be it. Expectations must be reasonable, bigger budget = potentially more competitive (driver skill based equation) but not necessarily more fun. I love running my 1.6 at little SM challenge races MSRH puts on. Much more fun than worrying about where I am in points, if i nailed the setup, if I stay in the tire money.......Just go out and drive, if i mess up there will be another one in a few weeks.

[Jim Drago]

I don't know what you mean by "top build"

I suppose you could tell one of the CSRs (Customer Service Reps) to "max-out" a car for you but, it would basically be putting in a newly rebuilt engine & tranny along with a good setup. (camber, caster, toe, ride height, shock settings, bar, brake bias, tire pressure, fuel pressure, ect.)

(The updates are more for reliability than performance but you could add all sorts of expensive electronic dash stuff if you wanted)

Chassis #1 is as good as chassis # 9-hundred-something

This is last year's dyno results of the top 3 engines.(Enterprise takes your engine after the runoffs)
http://specracer.com...t=56&hilit=dyno

The window is plus or minus 1hp for SRF engines

Hey if the SRF guys are happy and believe they have no parity issue and all the cars are within 1hp, that is great, that is the intent of the class and the program. Just wondering how 1-2 guys can always pull the field.

[Jim Drago]

Yes...We were the biggest class in the SCCA until recently.
Then you folks stole it away from us...Some of our drivers are still not happy about that

Enterprise has hired trolls like me to infiltrate your organization and commit acts of sabotage.

It was either last year or the year before Enterprises took out an add in grass roots that took some pop shots at SM. A few complained and it was pulled. That is what the posts are referring to. Several prep shops were close to putting up an add of their own

Those 1 hp dyno numbers are engine dyno, That takes completely out of the equation the rest of the drivetrain and fuel and timing maps in the car it was raced in by the way, but I am sure that is all the same A few years ago, they posted negative dyno numbers, you should take a look if this is all the same. I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE IS CHEATING>> Some are doing remarkable jobs to gain and advantage in that class, cudos to them

[Rob Burgoon]

OK, with assemply, a brand new SRF is $32,500. Straight from SCCA Enterprises website. Virtually equal to "top SMs" advertised on this site.

I must be missing something - if only SCCA Enterprises sells a new SRF - where does one buy a new "top SRF". Can you pay the SCCA an extra fee for a "top build"?

Once more, "new" != "top". If $35K gets you a new SM that will win runoffs, how much do you pay for a new SRF that wins runoffs? No doubt SRFs have lots of little things that can be fiddled with like SMs to get a little bit more out of them. Knowing these things commands a premium.

What you'd have to do is find a big SRF arrive and drive troupe and ask them how much $$$$ to turn a new build from SCCA Enterprises into a runoffs winner.

[WhatsThatNoise]

Once more, "new" != "top". If $35K gets you a new SM that will win runoffs, how much do you pay for a new SRF that wins runoffs? No doubt SRFs have lots of little things that can be fiddled with like SMs to get a little bit more out of them. Knowing these things commands a premium.

If you ask the top 3 guys from this years run-offs, I wouldn't be surprised if one sold you his car in "as raced" condition for $25,000

That takes completely out of the equation the rest of the drivetrain and fuel and timing maps in the car it was raced in by the way, but I am sure that is all the same

Fuel is checked like yours
The brain box is sealed by Enterprise as well as shocks, Tranny & Engine.
The rest of the drivetrain is spec.

James Winslow rented a decently prepaired car from KME at Mid-O Aug of 2010 and got a better lap time than Tray Ayers did in his own car.
(I know that car because it is the sister car to mine and did not have a very high level of prep or power)
We saw arrive & drivers win in a car they had never been in before (SRF Pro series) over others in their own car. (forgot names but you can check SRF pro series video)

One little mistake or loosing your line in one corner due to passing someone else...You just gave up a car length or two.
If this happens on a corner before a straight...Two guys up front working together will pull the field.