95 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Your shocks tested EXACTLY the same as the new ones. no degradation in performance from new.

He doesn't put much stress on them at the speeds he travels

[Caveman-kwebb99]

LOL

[FTodaro]

He doesn't put much stress on them at the speeds he travels

Let it be known that I do not stress out my shocks as much as Drago does but its not about speed' "dude"

[Danny Steyn]

Let it be known that I do not stress out my shocks as much as Drago does but its not about speed' "dude"

OUCH!!!!

[pat slattery]

go/no go tools should not be forced into a hole, just the weight of the tool only IMHO

[Bench Racer]

go/no go tools should not be forced into a hole, just the weight of the tool only IMHO

You are 100% correct, IMHJ.

I borrrowed a bare 1.6 head, am about to pick up a piece of 15/64 (.2344 dia.) drill rod & a piece of 6mm (.2362 dia.) drill rod, then will do some measuremets of drill rod felx/deflection with drill rod in valve stem hole.

[Danny Steyn]

go/no go tools should not be forced into a hole, just the weight of the tool only IMHO

I agree Pat - but what happens when gravity alone does not cause the tool to drop (for whatever reason - tolerance between tool stem and valve guide too small, burned oil deposits in valve guide etc) then someone will hve to press down on the tool to do any kind of testing - so how much pressure is enough to move the tool?

Another scenario - what happens if a clever builder shot peens a tiny raised notch on the outer radius of the relief cut that prevents to tool from falling?

Just playing devils advocate so we can anticipate what might happen in a real world tech shed situation where someone is still going to have to make a judgement call.

[Bench Racer]

Danny, not trying to be a know it all, but I believe there are work arounds for both items within your post.

I agree Pat - but what happens when gravity alone does not cause the tool to drop (for whatever reason - tolerance between tool stem and valve guide too small, burned oil deposits in valve guide etc) then someone will hve to press down on the tool to do any kind of testing - so how much pressure is enough to move the tool?

A re-concepted/designed tool could use gravity without the tool stem being required to gravity slide in the valve guide hole. I've been attempting to prod folks into openly brainstorm different tool concepts to no avail, unless it's behind the site screen.

IAnother scenario - what happens if a clever builder shot peens a tiny raised notch on the outer radius of the relief cut that prevents to tool from falling?

Just playing devils advocate so we can anticipate what might happen in a real world tech shed situation where someone is still going to have to make a judgement call.

9.1.8.C. Authorized Modifications

Permitted components or modifications must not perform a prohibited function.


Additionally we may need a couple extra words in the rules to spec the relief & throat cut SHALL be completed with a specific tool.

If the clever builder makes a tool to EDM an as cast surface, for a few thousands, have fun. People did this sort of gray area stuff Karting. Many paid the price after tech, correct Pat.



Have Fun

David

[Jim Drago]

Not quite sue we understand shot peening yet

here is another head I saw today... 14 mm

[Tom Sager]

How many SM racers does it take to measure the size of a small hole? Seems to me like someone in Topeka could and should be able to come up with a method of measuring the throat. However, if we wait for it to be done there maybe it never gets done?

[Bench Racer]

Relief cut tool potential deflection with loads shown. Used a .1.6 head. Presume the valve stem is harder than the .2340 diameter drill rod.

Pulled intake valve out until bottom of valve stem was flush with bottom of valve guide.

Valve stem Measured .2353 inch diameter.

Top of valve head is 2 1/16 inches from top of valve guide.

5# weight placed at 2 1/16 inches shows valve stem deflection of .006 inches.

2# weight placed at 2 1/16 inches shows valve stem deflection of .003 inches.

Removed valve, inserted .2340 drill rod into valve guide. 6mm drill rod (.2361 inch) would not slide into valve guide. No bore gauge, didn't measure valve stem hole.

Drill rod extended 2 1/16 inches from top of valve guide.

5# weight placed at 2 1/16 inches shows drill rod deflection of .006 inches.

2# weight placed at 2 1/16 inches shows drill rod deflection of .003 inches.

Drill rod extended 4 inches from top of valve guide.

5# weight placed at 4 inches shows valve stem deflection of .033 inches.

2# weight placed at 4 inches shows valve stem deflection of .014 inches.

With the info Danny started the thread with, others input and this deflection info make your own decision if a gravity go/no-go tool sliding in the valve guide will be effective.

[Danny Steyn]

David - are you measuring lateral deflection with a dial gauge? If so what is the mounting method of the dial gauge? Is this something easily repeatable?. Please can you show pics of your method of measuring deflection. Thanks

[Dan Tiley]

Bench... the relief cut being measured is only about 1" or less from the valve guide that locates the tool. Why are you measuring deflection 2-4 inches from the cantilever point? While the tech official may be pushing straight down on the tool 2-4 inches from the valve guide, the lateral load that leads to the deflection you're measuring is a component of the vertical force applied from the point of contact between the tool and the head (at the relief cut).

My suggestion would be measure deflection 1" from the cantilever point with a 10 lb load (include lash along with deflection)... will probably be around .003" or less, double that value and add that radial dimension to the max allowable radius of relief cut. Now you have a tool which cannot be questioned. If it falls in or can even be pushed in by hand.... you're out! No questions, no debates.

So.... 1.8L intake valve relief cut radius spec is 0.760". Don't change the spec, but make the tech tool 0.760 + (0.003 x 2) = 0.766", or a diameter of 1.532".

--Dan Tiley
www.TiSpeedEngineering.com

[Bench Racer]

Responding to Danny's questions, the following is the process used for measuring valve stem or drill rod flex.

For visualization, the rear of head water outlet is removed, the head is standing on the rear end surface 90* to normal in car on a flat surface. The dial gauge is held in a common magnetic based unit with the dial gauge feeler end pointed vertical to the bottom side of the outside diameter of the extended valve head or the bottom side of the drill rod, then zeroed out. The 5# or 2# load is then placed on top of either the valve head or the drill rod at the 2 1/16 inch or 4 inch length from the top end of the valve guide as stated in the previous post.

You know what they say about a Jack of all trades, but a Master of none. Taking the picture would be the Jack , posting the picture would be the Master .

[Danny Steyn]

Dave - just email the pic to me and I will host and post danny { at } dannysteyn {dot} com

thanks

[Danny Steyn]

Dan - I agree on the approach - but how do you suggest that we deal with a tiny dimple - pop mark on the relief cut that stops the tool from falling, despite the relief cut being cut beyond the tool size?

[Dan Tiley]

Dan - I agree on the approach - but how do you suggest that we deal with a tiny dimple - pop mark on the relief cut that stops the tool from falling, despite the relief cut being cut beyond the tool size?

I know it's not popular opinion, but I actually like the "hockey stick" or "flag" shaped tool that they used at the run-offs. If the stem is long enough to extend down the full length of the valve guide, AND the stem is appropriately sized (diameter), AND the business end (tool radius) is amply oversized as previously described (say around 0.006" radially), it will flag heads where folks have used CNC mills to generate non-circular relief cuts.... not that anyone would ever do that!

--Dan Tiley
www.TiSpeedEngineering.com

[Danny Steyn]

Hmmmmmmm!!!!

[Bench Racer]

Danny, you have an e-mail with photos attached.

Dan, after Danny posts the pictures I'll respond to your post questions/comments.

Within my post there will be a tool concept that will eliminate some issues that have been brought up in posts. Then we can all do our thing that were all very good at, pick the nits. ; )

Thanks guys
David/Bench

[Danny Steyn]

Dave I have uploaded your pics, here they are