563 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

State all your complaints and cars short comings here. I am going to start deleting posts ( included my own) off topic that  are scattered through other threads. It is getting ridiculous.  All parity posts, should go here from now on. If I can figure out how to move posts, I will move otherwise I will just delete. So I advise you to put here if you want them read. 

 

Most of us who actually race the cars routinely feel that the racing is closer and better right now than it has ever been. I know I feel this way. The engine rules have finally panned out and most all of the cars from different engine builders are all the same or at least within 1-2 HP.  Unbelievable really. 

 

There are many older and under built cars of all versions that are no longer competitive in SM, including  NB cars. The sad fact is that less a fully developed, properly set up car that is driven by one of the best in the class, pretty much a pro caliper driver,  you aren't winning any longer. The class has just become that competitive. Especially the Majors races.  I think that fact is more what drives these parity threads than the actual parity debates.   Most of the cars that have been passed by are the 1.6's naturally as they are the oldest cars. The class itself is not what it was 5-10 years ago. It has become super competitive and definitely become more of a "national" class than where we started. You can argue that a lot of the fun and camaraderie went with it. I would tend to agree. Perhaps, we all take ourselves too seriously for something we pay to do and is supposed to be fun. I know i have to slap myself in the face once in awhile and give myself a reality check.

 

The reality of the situation is that unless at a huge advantage, no one is picking a 25 year old car 1.6 car as their starting point right now.  I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend. The ONLY way we see an influx of 1.6 cars coming back is if we screw the rules so badly to where the 1.6 is the the only car that wins and that isn't happening. As a reminder, there will be no parity adjustments this or next year,  Even if the general consensus is the 1.6 was slightly better, I doubt many would build as they are the most expensive and hardest to build to the limit. The 99 car is much easier to build close out of the box with the help of the 38 mm straw it breathes through and just a better designed car, it is a 10 year improvement on the 1.6.  Many laugh about the suspension changes, they are significant, if they weren't, I doubt Mazda would have spent the money to redesign all that suspension. 

 

 

[Tom Hampton]

This discussion should start by choosing up teams. Drago can be captain of the '99/01 team (since no one will believe him arguing FOR the 1.6, anyway),







Tom,
I went to quote this and edited by mistake sorry! Please retype
Jim

Ha! Now that is funny. I never saw this edit. I couldn't retype at thus point. But, that's funnier than what I had to say anyway.

[trimless]

So who is captain of the 1.8 NA team?

[Keith Novak]

1.8 NA rev limiter.  The faster I get the bigger the problem this becomes.  It doesn't appear to be a big issue everywhere but on some tracks it's a major handicap.  If I could swtich my car to a 1.6, I probably would.  As it stands, I have been giving serious consideration to either switching to a 1.6 (good cars on the left coast) or an NB.

[Charlie Hayes]

1.8 NA rev limiter.  The faster I get the bigger the problem this becomes.  It doesn't appear to be a big issue everywhere but on some tracks it's a major handicap.  If I could swtich my car to a 1.6, I probably would.  As it stands, I have been giving serious consideration to either switching to a 1.6 (good cars on the left coast) or an NB.

I have a really good 1.6 on the left coast. 

[Tom Hampton]

So who is captain of the 1.8 NA team?

 

First one to speak up, wins.  You're it!

[pat slattery]

My biggest complaint is all the 99 guys, telling me they are equal.

[Michael Novak]

I will argue for the 01+. The rp is too small, the car is heavier, it has the crappiest diff of all, and the cam timing is all over the place

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I will argue for the 01+. The rp is too small, the car is heavier, it has the crappiest diff of all, and the cam timing is all over the place

 

 

Well you must feel your that much better then rest of us to pick such an underdog to race.  I know you just wanted a fair fight LOL

[Caveman-kwebb99]

My biggest complaint is all the 99 guys, telling me they are equal.

 

 

I never ever said equal...  similar is how i term it.  Your being off the pace at ATL has nothing to do with the model year IMO, it is track time, and dollars spent on your car.  I realize I spend less than most of the top guys are spending.  for me mostly its tires, not saying I am good enough even with the tires but I have fewer sets of tires at the race then most of the top guys, advantage them... Nothing to bitch about I just need to do more with less. Pat your son can drive, thats pretty obvious, but after seeing your car a couple times, that car is your weak link, not because its a 1.6, agrue all you want about parity, but money spent in the right places in racing gives you advantages over the rest.  when you come to mid ohio to have a trans failure that sends you home and then show up at ATL and leave for a lack of power, that speaks to car prep, nothing less and nothing more.   Why fight the inevitable? you can spend a boat load on your 1.6 to get the prep level to the top or you can sell it and then add that to the money you would spend on it and damn near build a top 99, seems a no brainer to me.  but then again i have been accused of being too logical more than a few times...

 

I am convinced that Partiy is in the eye of the beholder LOL

[Jim Drago]

My biggest complaint is all the 99 guys, telling me they are equal.

By definition the cars will never be equal, I have never heard anyone say that? Certainly not me. 

 

Serious question.. 

When the cars were absolutely equal.. You guys raced Bennett in his 1.6 like what 25-30 times? How many times did you guys beat him in the same version car? Once? 

Why, if the cars were the same were the results so lopsided? better driver? better car? better preparation? all of the above? 

Why would you expect different results now? Bennett was only one guy, no there are 15+ guys performmg at that level or higher. .

[JRHille]

By definition the cars will never be equal, I have never heard anyone say that? Certainly not me. 
 
Serious question.. 
When the cars were absolutely equal.. You guys raced Bennett in his 1.6 like what 25-30 times? How many times did you guys beat him in the same version car? Once? 
Why, if the cars were the same were the results so lopsided? better driver? better car? better preparation? all of the above? 
Why would you expect different results now? Bennett was only one guy, no there are 15+ guys performmg at that level or higher. .

probably doesn't help either that in your parts theres 1 or 2 1.6 cars that can run in your gaggle of 99's. Says nothing about the parity. Just most of the friggin cars are 99's!

[D Tesch]

It is fun to read all the drama of 99's vs everything else. Keep it coming!

[Mike Asselta]

So who is captain of the 1.8 NA team?

I will captain the 1.8 TURBO team.  In the meantime, I'm going to try to beat the champ and his bug-eyed parade at whatever track we meet up at, write letters about how a millimeter will afford me my rightful National Championship, and talk smack.  

[Jim Drago]

This discussion should start by choosing up teams.  Drago can be captain of the '99/01 team (since no one will believe him arguing FOR the 1.6, anyway), 

 

Tom

I know this is in jest.. But posting so the facts are out there. ..

 

Before I was on SMAC or CRB, I am the only driver that I know of that said my car was at an advantage and sent a letter in saying just that in 2007 and suggested it be addressed, search archives, I posted the letter on the forum. Who else has done that?

.

I did the same again this year in STL privately on the CRB, but I am 99% responsible for the additional weight on the STL Miata, my car is now 2560 and not 2490 as it was last year. 

 

Since being on the SMAC and CRB, the car I am driving HAS NEVER received a positive competition adjustment. NEVER!

I put weight on my car and weight off of the 1.6 two or three times since being on the comottees. All of this is public record, anyone who is unsure should look it up. 

 

Th changes last year were also a net negative to the 99.  So if I am biased or swaying the rules for my car, I am not too good at it    I have said it in the past and say it again, regardless of the rules, I will build what is best for me, I am fortunate that I am able to build whatever i want for far less time, money and effort than most and recoup all of my original investment as the car I am selling generally has a pretty good history.

[tburas56]

IMHO

Running a fully prepped 1.6 is a dominate car.

 

The car races, which has nothing to do with me, awesome. I know a few teams are starting to redo the development on a 1.6, how cool is
that…

The 1.6 chassis is stiffer, the diff is better, the car is lighter and the Air / Fuel is better than the 99. Must be the reason for the 99’s
fuel pressure regulator being allowed. Without it, the 99 could not keep up with the 1.6.
 

The last weight adjustment for the 1.6 was the CRB adding 15Lbs to the car, which I did not understand until the first race.
 

Good Job, CRB….

Last year the 1.6 holds 5 new track records.
 

[john mueller]

From the start if my time in SM I've been in a 1.6 and seeing that my donor was free it helped keep costs down (sorta).  I wadded-up my car a few weeks ago and have decided to start over with a 99.  Not because it's faster but because I've heard from many many who have switched that it's more forgiving on driver errors - of which I make a boat load each lap.

 

I don't think I'm in the minority in saying that I'm out there to have fun with no real expectation to win each or any time out.  I believe the 99, for me gives me better chance to still see the front of the pack without having to drive 12/10ths just to keep up (not due to speed but because of my ability).

 

Time will tell.  I'll have more info from the mid-pack perspective in a few months time.

 

 

 

IMHO

 

Good Job, CRB….

 

 

 

Todd,

If you're gonna say it get it right...   The big props go to NASA for making the bold move back in 2011 to afford us the great racing we enjoy now...  Yes, I led the charge within NASA that something had to be done but NASA National was willing to venture out so it could be better for us.  So, it's good on SMAC for working with NASA to adjust on 2011 to get the two back on the same page and better than it's ever been.

[FTodaro]

All parity posts, should go here from now on. If I can figure out how
to move posts, I will move otherwise I will just delete. So I advise you
to put here if you want them read.

Holly crap, I think I am going to Kill myself. Watch this go to 20 pages.

[Bench Racer]

Since being on the SMAC and CRB,

I put weight on my car and weight off of the 1.6 two or three times since being on the comottees.

From year 2006 through year 2012 there have been FIVE (5) weight changes to the 1.6.

From year 2006 hrough year 2012 there have been THREE (3) weight changes to the 99. 

The last weight adjustment for the 1.6 was the CRB adding 15Lbs to the car, which I did not understand until the first race.

Pssst, added TWENTY FIVE (25) pounds for year 2012.

[Jim Drago]

 From year 2006 through year 2012 there have been FIVE (5) weight changes to the 1.6.

From year 2006 hrough year 2012 there have been THREE (3) weight changes to the 99. Pssst, added TWENTY FIVE (15) pounds for year 2012.

I was on neither SMAC nor CRB in 2006 when they added 25 lbs to weight to 1.6 and removed 25 lbs from the 99, but nice try   Since I have been on SMAC and CRB, All 1.6 weight changes were DOWN and all the 99 changes were UP, your welcome!   Until realignment in 2012. Pretty well documented that was to get back with NASA and hopefully tighter racing. 

 

2012 was a complete realignment, so I don't look at that as penalizing the 1.6 with the 25 lbs, most feel the 1.6 cars are closer after that change than they were before. IMO, it was / is semantics.. Same people, same cars are winning. The cars and racing was good before, we shuffled the deck and have the same results, just got there in a different way and both clubs on the same rules which is definitely a positive.To prove the point.. I was on the pole before and after the realignment, with two different tires as well. What changed again? Same people are still winning and running at the front. Whatever rules are made, the same people will be winning.