24 replies to this topic

[juliancates]

With the Toyo RA-1's, what's the general practice for rain tires, running them full tread or shaving them down somewhat? I'm new to SM and need to order some tires for the upcoming season. Thoughts?

[Bruce Wilson]

Full tread for rain, i.e. standing water, etc. Of course you can run inters for damp. Some say to scuff in rains to remove the mold release, but we've never done it and we're not slower than anyone else -- in Oregon

-bw

[juliancates]

Full tread for rain, i.e. standing water, etc. Of course you can run inters for damp. Some say to scuff in rains to remove the mold release, but we've never done it and we're not slower than anyone else -- in Oregon

-bw

Thanks! No issues with squirm or chunking with the full tread tires?

[William Bonsell]

Thanks! No issues with squirm or chunking with the full tread tires?

Full tread....mount them....and don't do anything with them until they are needed. Some like lower pressures, some prefer higher. I am not one of them for sure, but there are some very fast "rain guys" up here in the Northwest. At a rain event late spring in 2010, I was about 3 seconds back on full drys but a full 9 seconds slower in the rain, albeit on pretty crappy intermediates, but there definitely is an art to "racing in the rain".

[philstireservice]

With the Toyo RA-1's, what's the general practice for rain tires, running them full tread or shaving them down somewhat? I'm new to SM and need to order some tires for the upcoming season. Thoughts?

There are "other' shaves for the rain...

[Dudley]

i prefer to run full tread as rains. i am one that likes to have one session on full tread tires to remove the mold release. some prefer new full treads so they have good sharp edges on the tires. also when track has standing water, it's good to disconnect one side of both front and rear sway bars. you want the car softly sprung.

[Cy Peake]

If it's raining, full tread is the way to go. A damp track usually warrants intermediates since full treads typically get ruined as the track dries during the race. I keep old rain tires for schools and to run as "intermediates."

[Mike Collins]

There are "other' shaves for the rain...

Yes there is.

[wreckerboy]

If you were racing against me in WDCR I'd tell you 1/32nd is the way to go.... Otherwise, full depth is fine.

[Tom Sager]

There are "other' shaves for the rain...

And alignment, pressures, ride height and bars.

[D. B. Cutler]

After you buy new rain tires, run them on a dry track for a few laps. You need to rub off the mold release. If you don't do this and try to run them in the rain with the mold release still on them, you'll find that it will feel like you are ice.

[Ron Alan]

After you buy new rain tires, run them on a dry track for a few laps. You need to rub off the mold release. If you don't do this and try to run them in the rain with the mold release still on them, you'll find that it will feel like you are ice.

So if they aren't scrubbed first and just taken out on the wet track will this "mold release" be worn off...but maybe just a little slower?

[TreadZone]

If it's raining and ther's standing water you want as much tread as you can get to get rid of the water. If the track is damp and it's not raining many will use shaved tires.
Joe
TreadZone

[D. B. Cutler]

Hi Ron,

No. The mold release will stay on the tires if you run them brand new on a wet track. When I tried it, the water was actually beading right on the tread when I came off.

The idea is to run just a few laps, wear off the mold release and the get off the track. You want to get rid of that stuff but still leave nice sharp corners on the tread blocks so that the tires can pump the water away for you.

The experience I had was with a brand new set of Toyo RA1s on a very wet track at Grattan. At one point, I was coming onto the straight flat out and ended up spinning the car down the front straight at about 70mph. Trust me, you don't want that stuff between you and the track.

[Ron Alan]

Hi Ron,

No. The mold release will stay on the tires if you run them brand new on a wet track. When I tried it, the water was actually beading right on the tread when I came off.

The idea is to run just a few laps, wear off the mold release and the get off the track. You want to get rid of that stuff but still leave nice sharp corners on the tread blocks so that the tires can pump the water away for you.

The experience I had was with a brand new set of Toyo RA1s on a very wet track at Grattan. At one point, I was coming onto the straight flat out and ended up spinning the car down the front straight at about 70mph. Trust me, you don't want that stuff between you and the track.

Well, not knowing any better we ran 3 sessions with tires fresh out of the shop. Driver didn't complain other than the the usual "man it's slippery". Did have one off track under braking but for the most part didn't seem any worse off than anyone else. I would think that an hour running on them has gotten them where they need to be? Thoughts?

[Keith Novak]

Well, not knowing any better we ran 3 sessions with tires fresh out of the shop. Driver didn't complain other than the the usual "man it's slippery". Did have one off track under braking but for the most part didn't seem any worse off than anyone else. I would think that an hour running on them has gotten them where they need to be? Thoughts?

I think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence, but I'm not sure how much of it is fact...

I look at pics of myself driving in the slickest conditions I can remember, and the suspension is very loaded mid turn. It requires quite a bit of lateral grip to get the car that loaded, and I know the car was sliding. To me that says there was enough friction and scuffing going on to remove the mold release, which is just a layer of parafin or something simlilar sprayed in the mold to keep the rubber from sticking. Is that true?

Water beading up on the tires could be from mold release, or it could be from driving through a spill of oil, glycol, etc. Which caused the water to bead up?

People say that tread doesn't matter unless there's standing water on the track. I recently drove 4 sessions on RA-1s without even the lines left on them in 40* drizzle and thought it was the slickest thing I've experienced. The next day I had a touch of tread on the tires in similar conditions and seemed much more sure footed. I also live on a hill that gets frosty in the morning and creates havoc for people with bald tires. I have no issues. Are those situations indicitive of the tire grip, or driver?

Level of confidence absolutely affects the way you drive in the wet. I personally feel more confident if the track is shiny, I'm better off with some tread on the tires, so I'll pick my own tires accordingly. I'll pull the stickers off my wets before I use them but I don't worry about the mold release, nor do people I know who fly in the wet. Is the level of grip due to my own confidence slip sliding in the wet on the tires, or the actual tire grip itself?

If you don't trust them, you will have one hell of a time keeping them pointed where you want them to go. That part I'm pretty sure of.

[D. B. Cutler]

Well, I was just trying to be helpful and share my experiences so that others don't get into a bad situation like I did. Yes, the mold release is parafin or some other substance designed to allow the tire to not stick to its mold. No, we didn't drive through antifreeze or oil or anything else. The car was sliding everywhere.

We had two cars there that weekend, both with brand new RA1s and both cars had the same problem. After that weekend, we ran a few laps with the tires on a dry track, scuffed off the mold release and the tires were good every time we used them afterwards.

[Bruce Wilson]

DB, The grip you experience is only relative to others you are racing against whether it's wet and raining or dry and greasy. Many of times, I've thought the same during a dry race only to find out that others were experiencing the same thing and the laptimes reflected it.

We've had a lot of experience driving in the wet in the last six months. For some reason we just got more than our share of rain. That would include an entire regional weekend and a 25 hour race that was wet for most of the race. We went through several sets of RA-1s in the process and not a single one of them were scrubbed. If it makes you more confident, then by all means get those tires scrubbed and rubbed, but if you don't have the time or sessions to spend on scrubbing rains, don't worry about it. You'll have just as much a chance of wadding it up as the next guy

-bw

[steveracer]

My first race on fresh, unscuffed full tread RA-1's put me on the pole by .01 sec. in a shortened, 2 timed laps session. My first pole in SM. The first 4 or 5 cars were within .3 sec.
So, I'm not buying the mold release myth either.

[Bruce Wilson]

People say that tread doesn't matter unless there's standing water on the track. I recently drove 4 sessions on RA-1s without even the lines left on them in 40* drizzle and thought it was the slickest thing I've experienced. The next day I had a touch of tread on the tires in similar conditions and seemed much more sure footed. I also live on a hill that gets frosty in the morning and creates havoc for people with bald tires. I have no issues. Are those situations indicitive of the tire grip, or driver?

It's all about getting those tires up to a decent temp, which is why we start playing with pressures when we choose a tread depth for intermediates. We're also trying to predict drying conditions and what will work best for the duration of a race. I remember one race where I chose inters and fell back 5 spots during the first lap but got them all back and then some by the end of the race. I felt like superman when I started flying by folks halfway through the race!

-bw