24 replies to this topic

[colinlucas]

Hello all!

So after running against a field no larger than 2-3 people in PT last year I've decided I would rather race a class with more competitors. 

I read every thread on the 1.6 vs 1.8 battle I could find and I'm hoping someone can suggest a year based on the following scenario:

1. I'm only going to be running regionally with So Cal NASA (Not enough money or time to try for nationals)
2. I like sprint races, but I really want to get back to running enduros.
3. I would rather build it from scratch to learn about the car rather than buy one completed (yes, I know that would be a cheaper route)

So my understanding is that with my lower budget the 90 miata would be a perfect car due to the twistier tracks, lighter use of consumables and cheaper starting point.

Comments?

[Neil O]

In my opinion you should reconsider buying a used car, unless saving $5000-$9000 (or more) isn't that important to you.  Use the saved money to get on the track.  You'll learn as you go and probably have plenty of opportunities to figure out the car.   

 

Everyones budget is different.

 

Good luck and welcome

 

Neil  

[RussMcB]

One thought/question popped into my mind while pondering this - Do you know who you will be co-driving with?  If yes, see if they can help with build/purchase decisions.

 

Granted, building your own car builds a huge knowledgebase about its systems, but buying a built car usually saves a lot of time and money.  One benefit is the original builder/racer has already worked through the new car teething issues.

[Brocodile]

If you are just starting out in this game, you will get more return if you invest time and money in improving yourself. Unless you have mastered driving, you will be unable to exploit the full potential of any car.

 

I agree with Neill and Russ: buy a decent used 1.6. Invest the time and money you save in track time. Learning about the car's mechanics is a good thing, but do it as you go. Take things apart and put them back together: individual systems and sub-assemblies, not the whole car at once.

 

Also invest in a Traqmate data system and a Go-Pro, and learn to use them. Many more experienced drivers will be willing to share data to show you where you can gain time.

 

Once your learning curve levels off, spring for a more expensive and better-prepped car. Your times will drop right away and you'll be happy with your investment.

 

Remember: a skill set is far more durable than any car, and you can take it with you from one car to the next. An investment in skills pays dividends in every race, no matter what kind of car you drive.

[Rob Burgoon]

Contact Mark at Iron Canyon Motorsports.  He'll help you with your options.  He also has several cars for sale I think.

[colinlucas]

Thank you all for the advice! I've been racing / teaching on and off with NASA from the beginning and got my license back in 93 with SCCA. 

 

I completely agree with the build vs buy options. I think its just a matter of having budget now vs over time for me. I would rather run a car in TT as I build it up vs waiting until I can buy one outright. 

 

I really wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be wasting my time on a 90 if they are going to be completely uncompetitive for any budget in the next few years (for just regional so cal racing). 

I'm also looking to see if any "90s suck in enduros, don't even bother" type comments pop up.

 

Colin

[john mueller]

My recommendation is to purchase or build a NA 1.8 or NB.   SM is well, SM.  But pull the restrictor plate for enduros (& NASA PT) and you'll be way more competitive than a top-shelf 1.6.  Best of both worlds.

 

If you want to talk IM me and we'll set a time to chat.

[colinlucas]

I wasn't aware that you could pull the restrictor plate for enduros. From reading the enduro rules, SM is classed as E3. Or are Miatas better running in a different class with some modifications for enduros? In that case, I can absolutely see the benefit of having a 99. 

[john mueller]

For WERC Enduro's you'd map a 1.8 sans-restrictor into E-Class via PT not SM.

 

WERC E3 is crazy competitive.  A 1.6 SM can't keep up, it's still good fun and great for seat time you'd not see a podium.

[colinlucas]

John: Great advice, thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for in the 90 vs 99 for enduros argument. 

 

At this point I've definitely been talked into the 99. Now its just a matter of finding the right starter car on CL or some magical promotion at work that gets me enough to get a built car. For some reason, I don't think any current owners will take payments

 

Thank you all for chiming in! I may take some of you up on your offers for additional help once I get the finances sorted. 

[Michael Colangelo]

 

Contact Mark at Iron Canyon Motorsports.  He'll help you with your options.  He also has several cars for sale I think.

 

+1

Mark at Iron Canyon is a great guy and he knows SMs inside and out. He's helped me out a lot this year and I definitely recommend him.

Also, most folks around here use the AiM systems for data acquisition so it's easier to find someone to share AiM data than it is for other systems. I recently picked up an AiM Solo and really like it.

P.S. Colin, I really like your instructional videos on YouTube. They helped me out a lot this past weekend at BRP. Thanks!

[Sean - MiataCage]

A 1.6 SM can't keep up, it's still good fun and great for seat time you'd not see a podium.

 

Didn't one win the 25 Hour last year by over 5 laps?

[Bruce Wilson]

LOL.  And that was in our rental car

[john mueller]

Didn't one win the 25 Hour last year by over 5 laps?

 

Was it a full on Spec Miata with "easy to do in an hour changes" to help it ?

[Sean - MiataCage]

Was it a full on Spec Miata with "easy to do in an hour changes" to help it ?

Believe it or not, no....... It was full blown SM minus the chin spoiler on Toyo RR's. 

[Kyle Keenan]

Was it a full on Spec Miata with "easy to do in an hour changes" to help it ?

It was an SCCA/NASA legal Spec Miata, sans chin spoiler. Believe most of the mechanical bits were rather fresh but other then that, IIRC it raced all last season with various renters in the car.

 

Only thing that I remember possibly taking "more then an hour" was the super bright LED lights.

[Ron Alan]

Come on boys...at least tell the whole story why the 1.6 won last year...and the few years before that   

 

Bottom line was it lasted over faster cars that had issues! Those who brought and will continue to bring a 99...including Miatacage who put there best drivers in the 99 until it had problems...dont expect these faster E3(PTE)cars to break. The 1.6 car will not win on pace or  1 less fuel stop it wont have to make. But a good team and drivers will stay within striking distance in a 1.6 car for sure...and can win as Miatacage has shown.

 

Colin...the 99+ car fits in PTE and E3 barely...do your research and read the rules if you decide to go this route. 

[colinlucas]

Come on boys...at least tell the whole story why the 1.6 won last year...and the few years before that   

 

Bottom line was it lasted over faster cars that had issues! Those who brought and will continue to bring a 99...including Miatacage who put there best drivers in the 99 until it had problems...dont expect these faster E3(PTE)cars to break. The 1.6 car will not win on pace or  1 less fuel stop it wont have to make. But a good team and drivers will stay within striking distance in a 1.6 car for sure...and can win as Miatacage has shown.

 

Colin...the 99+ car fits in PTE and E3 barely...do your research and read the rules if you decide to go this route. 

 

That reminds me of when my brother taught me the three rules of endurance racing.

 

1. Don't break the car.

 

2. Don't break the car.

 

3. Don't break the damned car!

[Johnny D]

I haven't run the 25 but it's on my bucket list.

But I did do well in my 99 in 2011, see below. 

J~

[Brocodile]

Thank you all for the advice! I've been racing / teaching on and off with NASA from the beginning and got my license back in 93 with SCCA. 

 

I completely agree with the build vs buy options. I think its just a matter of having budget now vs over time for me. I would rather run a car in TT as I build it up vs waiting until I can buy one outright. 

 

I really wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be wasting my time on a 90 if they are going to be completely uncompetitive for any budget in the next few years (for just regional so cal racing). 

I'm also looking to see if any "90s suck in enduros, don't even bother" type comments pop up.

 

Colin

 

Sorry, I assumed you were new to the game, not just to Spec Miata. Go with a 99 for sprint races. I don't know about enduros.