89 replies to this topic

[pfrichardson]

The prelims are posted:

http://www.scca.com/...t.cfm?cid=44472

Please also review Racing Memo 14-06 located on the same web page.

[RussMcB]

These caught my eye:

 

Recommended Items for 2014

1. #13555 (Terry Ozment) White Flag on Last Lap

The Club Racing Board recommends that the Board of Directors decide in their May 2014 meeting whether

or not to approve this rule change.  If approved, the Club Racing Board recommends that the change become effective June 1, 2014.

Add section 3 to 6.1.1.E. WHITE FLAG:

3. A waving white flag displayed by the Starter shall indicate the start of the last lap of the race.

 

2. #13565 (Jim Wheeler) Mechanical Protests

The Club Racing Board recommends that the Board of Directors decide in their May 2014 meeting whether or not to approve this rule change.

If approved, the Club Racing Board recommends that the change become effective June 1, 2014.

Change the Time Limit in the table below 8.3.1.F: No later than one hour before the start of the race session

of the competition for the issue in question.Within 30 minutes after the race.

 

Also seen:  Three digit numbers allowed (beginning with "1"),  and SM intake manifolds can have exterior paint.

[Bench Racer]

 

These caught my eye:

 

 

Also seen:  and SM intake manifolds can have exterior paint.

 

This forces me to ask the question, who got caught with their intake manifold insulated??? 

Did they also have the heat sink intake manifold gasket??? 

[mhiggins10]

Not a big fan of the white being used for the final lap when it already has a safety function (slow moving vehicle ahead).  I know NASCAR and IndyCar use it that way, but nobody else in the world does (as far as a quick google shows).

 

I would hope that, if they do decide to implement this rule, they change the slow moving vehicle flag.  I don't want to be blowing by the start/finish, see one of those and immediately be worried about what may have just come out of the pits in front of me...

[davew]

I don't get this. Why allow a painted intakes???? Who determines if it is paint or insulation? Consider the can of worms opened.......

 

I don't get the redefining of the word "finisher". In my way of thinking, taking the green flag makes you a "starter" not a finisher. Completing a predefined number of laps/miles/distance/time makes you a finisher. That number of laps/miles/distance/time should not be zero.

 

Although it is nice to know when the last lap starts, I have a problem with using the white flag, since this flag already has a purpose. What happens if the starter does not give a white and subsequently throws the checker. Is this protestable? If I where running in second, not seeing the white may effect my strategy for the next lap. What happens if I see the white, make an ill-advised pass thinking it is the last lap. But run smack into a disabled car or worse a rescue vehicle.

 

What about a last lap restart. Is the starter required to wave both white and green? This would not have effected the issue that happened at Sebring.

 

In all 3 of these issues, I feel some more thought needs to go into the discussion.

 

Slow down Topeka, think his through a little farther.

 

Dave

[mvzante]

Not a big fan of the white being used for the final lap when it already has a safety function (slow moving vehicle ahead).  I know NASCAR and IndyCar use it that way, but nobody else in the world does (as far as a quick google shows).

 

I would hope that, if they do decide to implement this rule, they change the slow moving vehicle flag.  I don't want to be blowing by the start/finish, see one of those and immediately be worried about what may have just come out of the pits in front of me...

 

Being new to SCCA, I will be completing drivers school this coming April, this is my fresh take.  Please excuse me if I ask a silly question or make a silly comment 

 

If a race is a set number of laps it makes sense to display a white flag at the starters stand to signify the last lap.  It's predetermined, it won't change.

 

If a race is timed it does not make sense to display the white flag at the starters stand as the # of laps could vary on a multitude of conditions.

 

How do you guys currently know when the last lap is?  Do you have a timer in your car, count the laps in your head, have someone on the radio telling you?  If I'm in 2nd and only have 1 lap left to make a move to take 1st I'd want to know when the last lap is.  

 

Since the white flag would then have double meaning it would have to be communicated that a white flag at the start/finish line ONLY means last lap.  If there is a slow moving vehicle on the track it would have to be displayed at the corner station before the start/finish line and that the starter will not wave a white flag for a slow moving vehicle.  OR change the slow moving vehicle flag color.

 

Just a newbies perspective, take it for what it's worth.  

[Tom Sager]

I don't get this. Why allow a painted intakes???? Who determines if it is paint or insulation? Consider the can of worms opened.......

 

 

 

Dave

Could not agree more.  

[CARacer]

In our region the starter holds up a finger to indicate one lap to go. I don't think it's a rule, I think he just does it as a courtesy. 

[mhiggins10]

In our region the starter holds up a finger to indicate one lap to go. I don't think it's a rule, I think he just does it as a courtesy. 

Same here- works well for me at the back of the pack.

[mhiggins10]

Being new to SCCA, I will be completing drivers school this coming April, this is my fresh take.  Please excuse me if I ask a silly question or make a silly comment 

 

If a race is a set number of laps it makes sense to display a white flag at the starters stand to signify the last lap.  It's predetermined, it won't change.

 

If a race is timed it does not make sense to display the white flag at the starters stand as the # of laps could vary on a multitude of conditions.

 

How do you guys currently know when the last lap is?  Do you have a timer in your car, count the laps in your head, have someone on the radio telling you?  If I'm in 2nd and only have 1 lap left to make a move to take 1st I'd want to know when the last lap is.  

 

Since the white flag would then have double meaning it would have to be communicated that a white flag at the start/finish line ONLY means last lap.  If there is a slow moving vehicle on the track it would have to be displayed at the corner station before the start/finish line and that the starter will not wave a white flag for a slow moving vehicle.  OR change the slow moving vehicle flag color.

 

Just a newbies perspective, take it for what it's worth.  

 

In our region, the starter will give you a raised finger (generally not the middle one) to indicate one lap to go.  Our races are typically timed so it's however many laps the lead car completes in [20, 30, etc.] minutes.  I have a lap timer/counter in my car, but I'm a back-of-the-pack guy, so if I've been lapped, my race is fewer laps than others.  I honestly can't tell you exactly what the last lap of my race is when I start it.  

[LarryKing]

In the Great Lakes typically the starter holds up a white board with a black number 1 on it. It works fine.

[Jeff Wasilko]

In the Great Lakes typically the starter holds up a white board with a black number 1 on it. It works fine.

Likewise here. Works fine and it's not confused with the white flag.

[Butch Kummer]

A waving white flag at Start/Finish will indicate you have begun the last lap. A STANDING white flag anywhere (including Start/Finish) indicates a slow moving vehicle is in front of you. A yellow flag has different meanings depending on whether it's stationary or waved - this is no different and you guys seem to be able to figure that out.

Different regions (of different starters even at the same event) use different techniques to indicate the last lap has started - some a raised finger, some a downward pointed finger, some a sign, and others give no signal at all. All we're wanting to do is make it consistent across the club (and my three-year old granddaughter knows what a waving white flag at S/F means).

And every flag set already has a white flag, so there's no additional equipment needed...

[Bench Racer]

Options:

Add a BIG red # 1 to the one lap to go white flag, have the two down corners weighted and hold the flag static wihout waving.

[Johnny D]

Hey Butch,

 

what's your take on the painting intake ok ?

J~

 

Spec Miata

1. #13600 (Jim Wheeler) Allow engine paint

In section 9.1.7.C.k.1, add the language as follows:

"The intake manifold must be stock Mazda parts, without any material added or removed. No coating is permitted on the exterior or interior of the manifold except that the manifold exterior may be painted..."

[davew]

Ok, I come up on start finish and see a waving white flag. The overall leader is on my butt, he has already seen the waving white and is waiting for a checker. Does the starter need to be waving both flags?

 

I understand the meaning and the intent. I even like the idea. I just think in practical life it will lead to problems. If this is made into a rule, it will have consequences. And I only see bad consequences. I want our starters to get the starts and the finishes correct (Road America, COTA, Sebring) and let the last lap be an unofficial finger, sign board etc.

 

Once we have the basics working 100% then we can add the bonus.

 

Dave

[Butch Kummer]

Hey Butch,
 
what's your take on the painting intake ok ?
J~

Spec Miata
1. #13600 (Jim Wheeler) Allow engine paint
In section 9.1.7.C.k.1, add the language as follows:
"The intake manifold must be stock Mazda parts, without any material added or removed. No coating is permitted on the exterior or interior of the manifold except that the manifold exterior may be painted..."

That's class specific so I don't have any input on that.

[Butch Kummer]

Ok, I come up on start finish and see a waving white flag. The overall leader is on my butt, he has already seen the waving white and is waiting for a checker. Does the starter need to be waving both flags?
 
I understand the meaning and the intent. I even like the idea. I just think in practical life it will lead to problems. If this is made into a rule, it will have consequences. And I only see bad consequences. I want our starters to get the starts and the finishes correct (Road America, COTA, Sebring) and let the last lap be an unofficial finger, sign board etc.
 
Once we have the basics working 100% then we can add the bonus.
 
Dave

Getting the white flag right is the first step towards getting the checkered at the right time. That said, if you're concerned the only results will be catastrophic then urge your Director to vote against implementation.

On edit - what happens if you get passed by the overall leader after s/he has seen the waving white flag (or raised index finger, sign board, whatever) and you didn't get it so the next flag you see is the checker? Are you going to protest that you didn't get the "One to Go" sign?

[davew]

Getting the white flag right is the first step towards getting the checkered at the right time. That said, if you're concerned the only results will be catastrophic then urge your Director to vote against implementation.

On edit - what happens if you get passed by the overall leader after s/he has seen the waving white flag (or raised index finger, sign board, whatever) and you didn't get it so the next flag you see is the checker? Are you going to protest that you didn't get the "One to Go" sign?

That is part of my point.

[FTodaro]

In the Great Lakes typically the starter holds up a white board with a black number 1 on it. It works fine.

Last lap indication

 

I think this is a good idea in general but how its done is the issue. I have seen the white board with a #1 on it, the one finger and the white flag. I knew what it was in each instance as the flag was displayed at the start stand, had i seen the white flag some place else i agree it would say to me safety vehicle.

 

I just know, i want to know that last lap. even though i have a data logger that is counting the laps for me, i have been in several races that were longer or shorter than the were supposed to be and if you chasing or being chased, you need to know that this is the last chance.

 

As far as the painted intakes goes, i am not concerned about it, i can't remember when i lost a position due to a painted intake. shaving tires and bump drafting is in the rules and i do think positions have been gained or lost there.