22 replies to this topic

[elliot mr average]

Hello,

 

I've been trying to build my Spec Miata for the last 6 months now, but I keep running into problems and making mistakes that cause big set backs. I'm trying to get the car ready by May 17th, but chances are I won't make it, but I'm still trying. Please keep in mind I'm young and poor with limited time to work on the car, and I have never built a race car before, so I apologize if any of my questions are stupid or I missed the answer elsewhere. I don't want to just give up, but no one in my family knows anything about cars and I have few friends that do.

 

The biggest issue I'm having right now is making my car safe. The roll cage I had installed is crappy, and while it meets the rules, it sucks in it's design. They didn't maximize the space available, so the pillar bar runs too close to my head with my current seating position. Needless to say, I'm never going back nor recommending them. When I sit in it the left side of my helmet rests against the pillar bar and it doesn't even have padding yet, and the left halo pad of my Racetech 4009HR seat is under the pillar bar completely meaning my head will contact the bar before the seat. I want to try and move the seat more to right, but I can't as it's too big and the transmission tunnel gets in the way. I've seen people cut the transmission tunnel and weld in a section, but I can't weld (and don't know anyone who can), and I was quoted $600 to have that cut and replacement panel made which I simply can't afford considering other big ticket items I still need to purchase. I'm also not sure how I'd mount the seat afterward. I've been told that I should use the OEM mounting points because the floor isn't strong enough alone and that the seat will punch through the floor in a roll over if I go straight to the floor. Another issue with moving it to the right is that due to the main hoop diagonal being so close to the driver side pillar bar up top that I'll have to move the seat forward to the point where my knees hit the dash when operating the pedals. I suppose I can notch the dash, but I'm worried about knocking or breaking the key in the ignition with my right knee.

 

I have looked into different seats, but everything I've found with a halo is the same size or larger than the Racetech, plus I don't exactly have the money to buy another $1000+ seat or pay someone to remove the cage and build another one as I already spent a lot on this one and want to try and make it work. I'm also uncomfortable using a non halo seat, so I don't want to give that up, guess I'm a bit of a wuss probably because of that but that's fine.

 

I'm also having trouble finding where to buy the restrictor plate, I know SCCA Enterprises is supposed to sell them, but on their website all I can find is Spec Racer Ford stuff, I see nothing about Spec Miata stuff. Maybe I missed it? If someone could point me in the right direction for ordering one for a 1999 I'd appreciate it.

 

Finally (for now), my car has the 4.3 open differential I think currently installed, I have a 4.1 Torsen, and I want to combine them to make the required 4.3 Torsen but I don't think I will have time to do it before May 17th. Considering I'll be lucky to finish in the top 40-50, do you think I will be disqualified if I run the open differential? It can't possibly be an advantage.

 

Thanks for your time to those that reply, and I apologize if any of this is stupid, has been answered elsewhere that I missed, or doesn't make any sense. I wish I could afford to pay to have some of these issues fixed but I can't, I don't have tons of money. I just want to try and have fun and make friends, hopefully my questions don't put a damper on that.

[Bench Racer]

mr average, I have read your post and I have read between the lines of your post and with that information I'll ask you several question before I answer your questions that I am knowledgeable about.

What is your name (first name is good enoug)?

Where do you reside?

Where is the May 17th event?

Which organization is your May 17th event with, SCCA, NASA,???

 

David Dewhurst

[elliot mr average]

Not sure what you mean by reading between the lines, didn't mean for anything to come off that way, I'm just trying to get my car race-able and I'm growing impatient since I've already been at it for over 6 months now. No ulterior motive or anything to my post. I also didn't see any sort of intro requirement or location, but sorry if I missed it. I'm Elliot from CA and I'm hoping to make the scca race at thunderhill may 17th.

[Bench Racer]

Elliot, my comment about reading between the lines was not negative in any way. I understand from your words your frustration. The reason for asking for your information is that the folks involved within the Spec Miata community are all very helpful with each other and with folks just getting started. Your city would be helpful. I live in Wisconsin therefore not practical for hands on help. You didn't specify SCCA or NASA. You sound like a racer just getting started. Looked at Thunderhill for May 17th and the event is an SCCA event. Do you have an SCCA road racing license? From the question you asked are you familiar with the SCCA General Competition Rules (GCR) book which has the Spec Miata rules and many other items you will further your advancement in SCCA racing. The following address is for the SCCA GCR
http://scca.cdn.race...ril-mobile1.pdf
Go to page 717 for the rules for Spec Miata. Within the rules you will find that it's legal to run a 4.3 open differental. Erik Skirmants president of SCCA enterprises is a long time friend. Call Enterprises asking for a restrictor plate. Someone there or Erik himself will be sure you can purchase the plate. My guess is that when you offer up the town you live in one or more folks will offer to look your car over with at least verbal support and maybe hands on support. In my mind the only time something is stupid is when someone asks a question full well knowing the answer.
The CA racers may be at a track for the weekend.

Remember, Have Fun
David

[elliot mr average]

Thanks for the info, I do have an SCCA permit, but I rented a car to get it during the schooling. I didn't know the GCR had info about the differential, so thanks for pointing that out and I apologize for not checking there first. I will call SCCA Enterprises on Monday and find out how to order a restrictor my poor worn out engine probably doesn't even need, thanks.

 

I'm in the CA bay area. Charlie Hayes has been kind enough to answer my questions from time to time, but I don't want to constantly bother him. The shop he works for,  TFB, fixed some suspension damage I did to the car the second time I drove it and they also pointed out a lot of other things wrong or sub-par with the car like the seat fitment with the cage, etc. I'm going to try beating the transmission tunnel more with a hammer and see if I can modify the bracket the cage builder made or maybe figure out how to make a new one, if that fails I guess I'll figure something else out.

 

Plenty of other people seem to be able to one man army their cars, so I can probably do it too, but it's overwhelming sometimes with the limited time, money, and space I have.

[David S.]

I'm new to this as well so I'm not much help but I know where you're coming from with the frustration. I owned my car for two years before getting to put the first mile on it. I started the build then decided to move and had to put the car on the back burner for awhile. The first time I drove it was at comp school. There were a lot of headaches but I just did my first race a few weeks ago and it was all worth it. Keep your head up and take it one problem at a time. Remember, this is all for fun so if you have to miss a race because the car isn't ready then so be it. Don't let something you enjoy stress you out too much.

[Bench Racer]

 

Plenty of other people seem to be able to one man army their cars, so I can probably do it too, but it's overwhelming sometimes with the limited time, money, and space I have.

Elliot, after a learning proces you'll be much more capable. Good to know you have your permit. Charlie is the sort of friend a guy needs. Only know him from reading his posts and knowing his capabilities. There are many good folks in CA. For massaging your tunnel for the seat take the car someplace where they have an air operated axial impact tool, insert a mushroom ended tool and the thing will massage the tunnel sheet metal. I moved the metal 1 inch or so for my 16 inch Ultra Shield Pro road racing seat would fit. This seat is not nearly as large and bulky as yours. The tunnel panel you mentioned for $600.00 seems like a rip. Look in the "site clasifieds" for a seat clearance/notch out panel $150.00. You cut and fit and get a couple quotes for welding.
David

[Ron Alan]

Well, well! I did see your name on the school list but did not attend this year. I kept expecting to see you at one of the first couple of events but nothing.  Why you choose to ignore your best local resource(Charlie's not bad ) and someone who would help you is a head scratcher...even after he reached out to you on multiple occasions and in different formats??? Bring me your open diff and torsen and i will put it together for you...or swap you one ready to go...free!  You need friends in this crazy hobby not enemies. A hand shake and a fresh start is good for the soul...your call   You know how to reach me.

 

BTW...occasionally the forum gets what some may call "prank" or "poser" posts. David was just wondering if yours may be one...why the questions he asked. But I can assure all Elliot is real young man! And Elliot, change your profile name to your own or a portion of and put your location. Look forward to seeing you drive...I have no doubt you will do better than "Mr Average" in no time!

[elliot mr average]

Broke my phone and lost everything contact-wise (ran over it with the car actually), never really had time to stop by since I work in Marin now. Nothing personal, figured you might chime in eventually once I recalled you frequent this forum. And I'm okay with being average certainly better than being below.

 

Also Mr Bench Racer that was a number I was quoted for a full job, not installing a plate I supplied or welding in a section I cut myself. I'm going to try a different bracket first (should be here next week) since I found one that is curved... not really sure how to describe it, but it wraps around the bottom of the seat sort of and might give me an inch to the right or so, maybe more with transmission tunnel pounding, but the seat will still have to come forward a bit unfortunately.

[Ron Alan]

Pm sent

[Bench Racer]

 

Also Mr Bench Racer

Mr. not required.

 

Have Fun

David

[davew]

Mr Average, this is going to sound harsh. mostly because I have 4 days to prep 11 cars for the Major this weekend. I simply don't have time to make this sound nice. please take it as constructive criticism.

 

Make friends, Sign your real name at the end of your posts. Put a profile so we know more about you.

 

Read the GCR, at least twice!!! It is free!!!! This will answer many questions.

 

If you have not already, get my book. I am not trying to make a sales pitch, but it will answer a lot more of your questions. And its only $25

 

Utilize known Sm pros when you need help. Mistakes are costly (ie improper roll cages) and can be dangerous. Doing it right the first time is cheaper than doing it twice. This keeps whatever money you have to spend "in the family" as well as making you some friends (see point 1 above)

 

Remember the work triangle. There are 3 kinds of work. Good, Cheap and Fast. You can only have 2 at a time.

 

A good cheap job is never fast

A good fast job is never cheap

A cheap fast job is never good

 

Dave

[ChrisA]

 Mistakes are costly (ie improper roll cages) and can be dangerous. Doing it right the first time is cheaper than doing it twice. 

 

Remember the work triangle. There are 3 kinds of work. Good, Cheap and Fast. You can only have 2 at a time.

 

A good cheap job is never fast

A good fast job is never cheap

A cheap fast job is never good

 

Dave

+1

This happened to me. Wasn't planning on doing SM when the first cage was installed. It wasn't a "bad" cage and I wouldn't say it was unsafe, but it did have compliance issues and few areas I wasn't happy with. So last fall I had the first cage cut out and new one put in. I do like the new cage, it was well done. However, that was a major expense I wasn't expecting that has killed racing for me this season.

[LarryKing]

 

this is going to sound harsh. mostly because I have 4 days to prep 11 cars for the Major this weekend. I simply don't have time to make this sound nice.

Then why are you screwing around on MazdaRacers?

[bones240z]

Dave Wheeler's book is an excellent resource, get it. Ron Alan's support at the track is wonderful. Some cars have torn most corners off and are rebuilt overnight by Ron and running well (certainly beating the heck out of me). The time crunch could be your enemy. Better to miss a race and continue to work on the car until it is right. A well sorted car will be safer, faster, and more fun. You don't want to get an ill-prepared car to the track just to be working on it all weekend. 

[Johnny D]

Hey Elliot, Welcome !!

 

Do yourself a favor.

Listen to Ron. You don't have time for "I'm going to try this 1st"

You'll save a lot of time and $, Have a good piece for TH, you'll be happy you did.

J~

[Alberto]

Hello,

 

I don't want to just give up, but no one in my family knows anything about cars and I have few friends that do.

 

 

In everything in life - Persistence pays.  Keep at it, try to minimize mistakes by research and gaining knowledge on the subject, make your unavoidable mistakes along the way.  I learn more from making mistakes...

 

 

 

The biggest issue I'm having right now is making my car safe. The roll cage I had installed is crappy, and while it meets the rules, it sucks in it's design. They didn't maximize the space available, so the pillar bar runs too close to my head with my current seating position. Needless to say, I'm never going back nor recommending them. When I sit in it the left side of my helmet rests against the pillar bar and it doesn't even have padding yet, and the left halo pad of my Racetech 4009HR seat is under the pillar bar completely meaning my head will contact the bar before the seat. I want to try and move the seat more to right, but I can't as it's too big and the transmission tunnel gets in the way. I've seen people cut the transmission tunnel and weld in a section, but I can't weld (and don't know anyone who can), and I was quoted $600 to have that cut and replacement panel made which I simply can't afford considering other big ticket items I still need to purchase. I'm also not sure how I'd mount the seat afterward. I've been told that I should use the OEM mounting points because the floor isn't strong enough alone and that the seat will punch through the floor in a roll over if I go straight to the floor. 

 

Wow.  They sound like a bunch of fudging idiots.

 

Sounds like you have 2 problems.  

1. Cage

2. Seat positioning

 

The seat positioning thing sounds like your biggest issue right now.

 

Many people use the stock front mounts of the seat and remove the rears.  A bracket would be used to mount the seat to the 2 front mounts and holes drilled in the floor for the rear mounting.  Those holes would be enforced with a 3-4" backing plate and appropriate strength bolt per the GCR.  You may not need to mount the seat closer to the tranny tunnel if you over come that issue.  

 

I'm curious who did the cage but I can understand if you don't want to name names.  You could post some pics of the seat issues to illustrate.  

 

I'd probably plan on missing the next race and hope the make the following one.  Installing a seat can be tricky.  Especially if you have to work around immovable objects like cages.  

[Charlie Hayes]

Elliot you can pick up a plate from the NASA office in American Canyon. Same purple plate with no shipping. Call the 1 800 number and ask if you can get one. Or let me know if you want I'm going to stop by and get a few more I can get a extra for you.

[Ron Alan]

For what its worth, though we dont hit it just sitting in the car, the portion of the cage on the left side of the drivers head will be contacted before the Halo. Was built years before we got our latest seat. I pounded the tunnel a little(1") to get the seat over but the Halo design is just wide...not much we can do...nor do i think the bar could have been located much differently. 

 

I hope Elliot you have made every effort to have this fixed by the cage builder if in fact it can be fixed. And i assume he had your seat when he built it? If you took it to where you told me...I dont see why he wont make things right for you if possible. He has been around a long time and gets a fair amount of business from the SM community. But outing him here is not what this forum is about nor should be done until all your options in working with him are exhausted. 

[Alberto]

I hope Elliot you have made every effort to have this fixed by the cage builder if in fact it can be fixed. And i assume he had your seat when he built it? If you took it to where you told me...I dont see why he wont make things right for you if possible. He has been around a long time and gets a fair amount of business from the SM community. But outing him here is not what this forum is about nor should be done until all your options in working with him are exhausted. 

 

 

What Ron said.  Sounds like you already got some good advice off the forum.  Don't go airing dirty laundry till you try and work it out with the shop that provided these services.  Good luck.  Sorry to hear about the difficulties.