96 replies to this topic

[pat slattery]

2 EX SMAC beating up again on the 1.6 nay sayers  

[Tom Hampton]

With all due respect and in as constructive a manner as I can put it. You are sounding like Rainman at this point and losing the few supporters you had. There is no one that has ever read this forum that does not know the TQ is lower on a 1.6 than a 99/00 under 5500. If that was all that was involved in a race car, that is the only point that would matter. The TQ curve on your 1.6 will never mirror that of a 99 which is why the car weighs less( yes I know it doesn't fully offset it, but at the top the car has a HP to /weight advantage which is one of the reasons the formula you hate so much is often applied. That weight not only effects acceleration, it effects corning and stopping. Which is one of the reasons why you feel you dont need NB suspension. Furthermore, most who try to get the most out of there cars try really hard to NEVER race their 1.6 under 5000 RPM. so you are really talking more like 5000-5500. It is a short coming of the car, we know and understand that and one of the reasons it revvs to 7200 instead of 6900 or 7000.

You are retired and have the time to devoted to this.. Why not test several possible solutions yourself and present the data. Stating an obvious problem for at least 150 times now on the forum is doing nothing but alienating people from your cause IMO. You can come back with some smart ass reply if you like, it was meant to be constructive.

+1000

I own a 1.6,and when I read dd/ps whinings, I just want to sell it. Why? Not because of the issue, but just to disassociate myself from the stigma this mantra.

DO something besides bitch, or kindly....

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I'm not whining I'm debating !

[Bench Racer]

Jim, you and your followers can post at will, bash any which way they choose and everything is a ok in your book. If some of the previous SMAC had openly brought the 1.6 issue forward this entire discussion may not be happening. Thank you current SMAC.

 

And the formula, please provide some mathematical validity to prove it's value. 

[38bfast]

The formula is good for horse shoes and hand grenades. It works for getting things kinda close. SCCA uses it for most other adjustment classes. The SM tollarance for performance adjustments is much tighter than any other class in SCCA. In most other classes +/- 1.0 second is called parity. In SM our membership is demanding +/- .1 of a second. The SMAC wants to achive that goal. No easy task. We are trying. Will we hit it spot on? Maybe. Will we bit off? Maybe. Will we do our absolute best we can. You bet.

[38bfast]

And Pat I don't belive that any of the previous or current SMAC members wanted to kill the 1.6. The last change 3 years ago gave the 99 a smaler plate.

The issue is that the 1.6 in data and in race results has proven over and over again that it can run a very fast and competive lap. It's issue is its handling, ability to race in traffic or recuperate from a mistake falls short by a bit. Just a bit. So we have to be very careful that any changes to the 1.6 does not over shoot the goal.

IMO we have a good handle on the 1.8,99 and VVT cars. The 1.6 offers the biggest chalange to bring into parity. Hell even the 1.6 advocates can't even agree on a solution. Bench wants to drive around short shifting

[Ron Alan]

Yes Ralph...a smaller restricter AND 50 lbs less! 1.6 gained weight in the last round! And gained a heavier/wider/taller tire!(Ok-so did all...but the net affect hurt the 1.6 most! IMO)

 

Take 25lbs back off the 1.6 as off yesterday! Let the storm calm for awhile!

[ECOBRAP]

Yes Ralph...a smaller restricter AND 50 lbs less! 1.6 gained weight in the last round! And gained a heavier/wider/taller tire!(Ok-so did all...but the net affect hurt the 1.6 most! IMO)

 

Take 25lbs back off the 1.6 as off yesterday! Let the storm calm for awhile!

 

And turn signal intake duct!

 

Unless Mazda wants to see me racing without my hood 

[High Chair]

Kyle,

 

What's the Comp Diff worth at Road Atlanta? VIR? Mid-O? Probably much less than you think, I'd say less than 0.5s a lap. Which is why I have not purchased one!

You would be wrong! The loss in turn 7 at RA will cost you more than .5 seconds. VIR, Sebring, Daytona, and every track you race at is more than a .5 second loss. 

[Jim Drago]

Any reports on the giken? I have only heard limited feedback, but supposedly better than the comp diff?

[High Chair]

The 1.6 is never going to be competitive without equal money (even then it is doubtful) and right now all we are doing is slowing down the rest of the field trying to keep vintage cars going. It is time to put ALL N.A cars in their own class and start focusing on the 99-05 cars for SM. Nobody in their right mind is going to build a 1.6 and nobody that is not actively racing is suddenly going to pull their cars out of the garage if the 1.6 gets competition adjustments. Give the N.As their own class and let them run with all the other SMs like they do now. Pull the plates on the 99-05 cars and the class will be better than ever.

[38bfast]

Mike you might want to look into a security guard. Huffmaster can provide the service. The 1.6 gang may be looking for a Linching. There is going to be burring Hoosiers outside of your motor home.

[Ron Alan]

Any reports on the giken? I have only heard limited feedback, but supposedly better than the comp diff?

According the GCR it is the CUSCO lsd...is the OS Giken LSD also acceptable now?

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

The 1.6 is never going to be competitive without equal money (even then it is doubtful) and right now all we are doing is slowing down the rest of the field trying to keep vintage cars going. It is time to put ALL N.A cars in their own class and start focusing on the 99-05 cars for SM. Nobody in their right mind is going to build a 1.6 and nobody that is not actively racing is suddenly going to pull their cars out of the garage if the 1.6 gets competition adjustments. Give the N.As their own class and let them run with all the other SMs like they do now. Pull the plates on the 99-05 cars and the class will be better than ever.

If you pull the plates on the NB cars you will just add tons of money to the building of that car. You will have to flow test all your parts and tons of dyno time. So that's not good for the class either on trying to keep costs down.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

According the GCR it is the CUSCO lsd...is the OS Giken LSD also acceptable now?

Has anyone used the Cusco yet and is it hard to set up ?

[Jim Drago]

Sorry, meant Cusco

[Jim Drago]

If you pull the plates on the NB cars you will just add tons of money to the building of that car. You will have to flow test all your parts and tons of dyno time. So that's not good for the class either on trying to keep costs down.

That is correct, would be good for me , but bad for the class
Jim

[Jim Drago]

Jim, you and your followers can post at will, bash any which way they choose and everything is a ok in your book. If some of the previous SMAC had openly brought the 1.6 issue forward this entire discussion may not be happening. Thank you current SMAC.
 
And the formula, please provide some mathematical validity to prove it's value.

ahh right on cue and just as dependable a broken clock.. Right twice a day!

[Bad Rusty]

ahh right on cue and just as dependable a broken clock.. Right twice a day!

I've only met Jim twice, but he has "minions"? That's cool

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I've only met Jim twice, but he has "minions"? That's cool

That's awesome right there...

I wonder if there are any 1.6 minnions out there??? Or does Jim have a patent on minnions?