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#1
Johnny D

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http://scca.cdn.race...elimMinutes.pdf

I think this is the important bit below.

Recommended Items for 2016
The following subjects will be referred to the Board of Directors for approval. Address all comments, both for and against, to the Club Racing Board. It is the BoD’s policy to withhold voting on a rules change until there has been input from the membership on the presented rules. Member input is suggested and encouraged. Please send your comments via the form at www.clubracingboard.com.

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1. #16783 (Club Racing Board) Update to 9.1.7.C.1.a.1.f.5
Replace the entirety of 9.1.7.C.1.a.f.5
Current: 5. Unshrouding of valves is explicitly limited as follows: there must be a sharp edge where the valve relief cut meets the chamber. That edge must be present and unmodified. This area is not to be blended by hand, machined, or chemically processed to create a smooth transition. The maximum dimensions are listed below, measuring guide centerline to chamber edge:
New: 5. Unshrouding of valves is explicitly limited as follows: The wall of allowed relief cut must be a single cut parallel and concentric with the valve guide for the full depth of the cut. The cut must be cylindrical with no taper. The bottom of the cut must form a 90º angle with an allowance for a bevel or curve whose length is not to exceed .040". There must be a sharp, non-modified and non de-burred edge where the valve relief cut first meets the chamber. No part of this cut is to be blended by hand, machined, or chemically processed to create a smooth transition. The maximum dimensions are listed below, measuring guide center line to chamber edge:
NOTE: The Final version of Fastrack will include a diagram depicting the above description.


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#2
Michael Novak

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ALL the time the SCCA had to look at the heads after the runoffs-------Thousands spent to adhere to the new rules for the heads and now a possible new one again....  You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!

 

  The chance was had to fix all the rules after the runoffs.   Anything done or not has past leave it be or people will walk.


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#3
FTodaro

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ALL the time the SCCA had to look at the heads after the runoffs-------Thousands spent to adhere to the new rules for the heads and now a possible new one again....  You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!

 

  The chance was had to fix all the rules after the runoffs.   Anything done or not has past leave it be or people will walk.

I am not technical enough to read those two definitions to appreciate the difference. I know I just spent a bunch of money to get my stuff to where I know it is compliant, If the above changes makes was is legal in 2015 not legal in 2016 then I agree 100%. you can do that to us twice. The bus has left the garage.


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#4
Johnny D

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#5
Sean - MiataCage

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This clarification came about all because we have motor builders playing fast and loose with the rules again.  In recent months, several of us have confirmed that at least one specific motor builder has been taking creative liberty with this specific rule and after testing found it to be a limited competitive advantage (less than 2 hp) but a competitive advantage none the less.   

 

Several of us tried to get a clarification out of SCCA, and were told verbally they didn’t like it and it would not pass inspection if they saw it.  After the recent race at NOLA when the area in concern was looked at and passed (without a protest just general inspection) it was decided that the issue needed to be addressed immediately and brought outside the normal process to the higher up powers that be within SCCA to get a formal written actionable ruling on the situation.  Either way, let if fly or not, we needed a formal written clarification quickly to allow everyone to be on a level playing field.

 

Given SCCA’s current process there was really no way of getting a formal clarification on the rule unless it went from a protest to the appeals process and then ruled on by the CRB.  This would have taken most of the year to accomplish and in my mind is not the proper way to handle this situation.

 

When brought to the appropriate powers that be in SCCA there was really one guy who championed the cause and made this happen.  I will let him choose to identify himself if he so desires, but without his logical and reasonable look at the situation then we would have had no choice but to go down the protest and appeal path which I don’t think is what is right for the long term health and perception of the class.  Instead this issue was brought up, reviewed and addressed in well under 60 days.  This in my opinion is a positive step and can eliminate the large protests like last years Runoffs.

 

Could and should it have been addressed earlier after compression and STR gate?  Yes, but that ship has sailed and we have no choice but to continue to try and do the best we can to continue tightening up the rule set and eliminate any gray areas AND come up with new procedures and tools to measure areas that have been historically hard to measure or tech.  The addition of the CCC to this process was a great start and with some more tooling and process hopefully we will get the shenanigans out of the motors quickly.

 

If the rules stand as they do today and you or your engine builder built your motor without a radius cut, then you are going to need to go out and buy a new head as that material has been removed and can not be put back if you want a motor built with the most HP legally possible.  Those that chose to put the radius on the cut can go back in and have it re-machined to eliminate the radius and be brought back into compliance (proposed rule) without purchasing a new head.  It is for this reason that my opinion is that the clarification is needed to keep the masses from having to throw out good legal heads to end up getting the last little bit out of the motor on a rule that in my opinion is being exploited.

 

As it stands right now it appears to me based on the Fastrack request for feedback that SCCA is taking the stance that the radius cut is allowed and will pass tech through at least the remainder of the year.

 

So.....  If you want to add more expense to the class then submit your letter to turn down the proposed rule clarification.  If you want to eliminate the need to go out and buy new heads to get the last little bit out of your motor then submit your letter supporting the rules clarification.

 

Whatever you decide, everyone needs to submit a letter.

 

Sean


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#6
Ron Alan

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Though I think i understand this...a picture would be priceless! Anyone?


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#7
KW78

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This reeks of another round of personal agenda pissing contest.

 

This class needs to get over the rampant fallacy that everyone gets a "level playing field"  What a bullshit statement.  Everyone gets a rulebook.  Maximize rules or don't, your performance will vary.

 

Just because someone does a slightly different valve job someone wants a rules rewrite??!!  Complete crap.  What is next, someone gets the CRB to define a spec alignment?  How about a spec starting cold pressure?  Spec cross weights?  All those make way more difference than some .040" debur or not debur or whatever the newest issue is.....  Jesus...

 

We are not Spec Racer Ford!!  We are like formula ford.  We should be called Formula Miata...  We have a few different motor choices and chassis combos.  YMMV ...

 

The real news here is that apparently the flat plate restrictor technology is such a piece of crap that some small machine process makes a difference. 

 

Same BS, different season... 

 

Leave the rules alone, let the racing attempt to recover.  I personally think its a longshot.  I count 9 spec miatas sitting here at my shop tonight who collectively decided to not put up with rules in flux all the time at the majors and have dropped out of the national scene.  Hallet, TWS, and Kansas trips all cancelled.  A few may do pueblo.  Pay attention SCCA.  An no, no one is going to bother with a letter, they will just speak with their wallet.

 

 

 

:fuming:

 

 


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#8
Keith Andrews

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How about proposing a rule that the SMAC can't screw with the class. 


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#9
LarryKing

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SCCA should have stuck to their guns at the beginning of the year and made everyone go to a stock, unmodified head.

 

If the engine builders and the win at all cost crowd couldn't (tech shed legally) push the limits then SM would not have this problem.

 

PS: It WAS supposed to be a spec class, like SRF.


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#10
Caveman-kwebb99

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How about proposing a rule that the SMAC can't screw with the class. 

 

SMAC please turn a blind eyes I want to put in my supercharger so I can go zoom zoom.


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#11
Sean - MiataCage

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This class needs to get over the rampant fallacy that everyone gets a "level playing field"  What a bullshit statement.  Everyone gets a rulebook.  Maximize rules or don't, your performance will vary.

 

:fuming:

 

So....... Then if the rule book is so good and easy please tell me if the radius cut is legal under the current written rule.


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#12
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What were the famous HeadGate words, It's Standard Machine Shop Practice:bs:

 

For being informative with the information, thank you Sean.


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#13
Jamz14

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How about proposing a rule that the SMAC can't screw with the class. 

How about a rule that racers and race shops can't screw with following the rules? Oh wait , we have that rule. Doesn't stop anyone though.


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#14
Ron Alan

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Same BS, different season... 

 

Leave the rules alone, let the racing attempt to recover.  I personally think its a longshot.  I count 9 spec miatas sitting here at my shop tonight who collectively decided to not put up with rules in flux all the time at the majors and have dropped out of the national scene.  Hallet, TWS, and Kansas trips all cancelled.  A few may do pueblo.  Pay attention SCCA.  An no, no one is going to bother with a letter, they will just speak with their wallet.

 

 

 

:fuming:

In this case we should just go back to the original rule set and throw out every Fastrack ever written correct? We are not the only class in SCCA,,,SCCA is constantly tweaking things in an effort to "Maximize" competition. I think SCCA is paying attention...to those who are tired of others "maximizing the rules"(undocumented workers?). Its not utopia but an effort to make things as close to black and white as possible vs gray is a good thing in my opinion. 

 

Out west(SFR)attendance at regionals(this year) has been good in SM but the first Major was terrible(8 cars compared to 40 last year).

My guess is this is more about Runoffs on the East coast and expenses from last year,..vs rule changes. Again, just my opinion.

 

Whether this goes anywhere or not, and if in fact would not be compliant...at least there is a long time between now and Daytona for anyone who may think they have an issue to deal with it. Well, maybe some of the Majors out East as well if in fact they have been pulling heads. RP got checked at Thunderhill last weekend :pessimist:


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#15
38bfast

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A short video to help describe what the Valve relief cut is. 

 


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#16
38bfast

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From the information that I have gathered I have been made aware that there are currently 3 SM engine builders using a radius of approximately 1.5mm or .060R at the bottom of the cut left buy the cut process. The number of heads that have this machining process applied is somewhere between 600-and 800 heads. I don't know how many are still in service at this time. This practice has been applied for many years. 

 

To date the valve relief cut rule as to referencing the size of bend or radius at the bottom of the cut has not been challenged and no heads have been found none compliant relating to that issue to date.

 

The issue as I see it is some builders believe that the profile of the cut is open per the rules and others believe it is not. 

 

As far as performance advantage goes claims from none to +2hp have been announced. This is a very hard modification to compare. No 3rd party testing has been done to date to my knowledge. 


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#17
James York

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 This is a very hard modification to compare. No 3rd party testing has been done to date to my knowledge. 

Then I am confused at how an earlier post can claim it a "limited competitive advantage" and throw out a number.

 

if it turns out to be a negligible advantage, perhaps a rules clarification can be made to permits what has been seen, but now then all builders have the same awareness as to what's legal in this arena. 


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#18
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Great follow up video Ralph.

 

The following is no slight/slam/whatever to Ralph.

 

Picking apart the below sentence from the FasTrack rule.

 

"The bottom of the cut must form a 90* angle with an allowance for a bevel or curve whose length is not to exceed .040".

 

Within this sentence does bevel mean chamfer and does curve mean radius?

 

What does not to exceed .040" mean?

 

Ralph, from your post #16 your definition of curve means radius or R not to exceed .040". The true definition of a curve of .040" would be the actual length of the curve would be .040" and the R would be much smaller that .040". The R would be approx. .030".

 

Do we really want to leave the bevel/chamfer as an option and if so, is the .040" the dimension across the face of the chamfer or the maximum vertical and or horizontal leg of the of the bevel/chamfer?

 

Options:

 

The 600-800 heads with .060" R could be re-machined to the .040" R.


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#19
38bfast

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just to clarify when I say 3rd party I am referring out of the SM circle.  


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#20
davew

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The 600-800 heads with .060" R could be re-machined to the .040" R.

 

And the engine builders make more money.


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