48 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

with some of these topics, i think we need a thread on what people "think" they can skimp on.

yes not everyone can afford the great motor, paint job and so forth but c'mon. we're racing as a hobby and no one wants to see someone get hurt or end their day because of poor workmanship or the thought of saving money.

[Tom Hampton]

Define "skimp"?

I use whitebox rotors.

I use autozone calipers---Rebuilt with Mazda rubber.

I have a bell helmet that I bought on sale at the end of the last snell cycle instead of the latest carbon fibre stilo.

I have a crow harness vs safecraft.

I have an aluminum ultrashield halo seat vs a composite.

All these were cost based selections. I don't think these were safety sacrifices. I felt I was trading other features like lightness for price.

[38bfast]

This could be A very long list. But just to get it started.
Cage, I see so many cages that come through the shop that are outright illegal by the rules. Bars that are bent that must be straight. Welds that are not 360. Diagonal placed wrong. Then there are things that meet the rules but are outright dangerous. Cross bar that is gurenteed to bust your knees on frontal impact. SFI foam limited and scares. Or no SFI at all. Pool noodle foam.

Belts mounted improperly
Seats mounted improperly
Fire systems held in with sheet metal screws
No seat back braces or none effective braces
Brakes and suspension that has 180,000 miles on them
Brake pads with 1/6 material left on them
Steering wheel bolts not loctite
Kill switches that don't kill the engine
Running wires through sheet metal without grommets
Brake lights that don't work
Antifreeze in the coolant system
Bleed the brakes once a season
Running parts that have been compromised from impact. No visible damage but difinatly been stressed
Wheels that have gouges in the spokes
Fuel lines not attached properly
Coolant leaks that have not been identified
Holes not plugged between trunk and cockpit
Hoes in fire wall
Holes in floor
Brake lines rubbing
Poor electrical / wiring quality
Battery not secure
Broken/cracked parts not identified
Heat checked rotors
Window net not tight
Improperly installed center net
Fire system pulls not secure
Mirrors not addiquit, no blind spots
No internal door release, both doors
Hard tops with missing fasteners
Cam bolts not tight
Bad wheel bearings and having no clue that they are bad.
Missing intake brace
Missing exhaust brace. Down pipe to trans
Not proper head clearance
Sharp edges on door gut job
Sway bar end links in bind or bent
Exhaust hitting diff or axels
Pitch welds caved in from jacking
Under tray wth only 1/2 the fasteners
Rad screen not attached per the rules
Engine, trans, diff leaks
Fuel tank baffles broken
Fuel test port installed with underrated materials
Tunnel and shifter boots cracked
Running on corded tires before the car goes on track
Ballast weight not properly attached
Fan not working
99 intake butterfly's not working


That should be a good start to the list

[wheel]

I hate having hoes in the firewall.  

[av8tor]

I bought a car that had just raced an SCCA national the weekend before.  The seat belts were installed completely wrong, they were attached to the cage in a way that would allow them to slide a solid 12 inches or so before they would hit something to stop their movement.  The only reason they came together at the drivers lap,was because the slots in the (improperly anchored), seat redirected them.  In fact, the anti submarine belt was anchored 4 inches in front of the seat, then routed back and up through the seat slot. The seat had no back brace and only hardware store flat washers on the through floor bolts.  Any hard impact would have sent the seat and the occupant flying a good foot or so before the belts caught on something and quit sliding along the roll cage.  The net was attached to the door, not the cage, Any bend to the body or if the door came open the net was completely compromised.  The shop that build the car had put grommets in the firewall penetrations, but when the owner switched it from SM to ITA he ran wires through bulkheads with no grommets.  Didn't anchor wire runs.  Lots of poor workmanship, but the ridiculously unsafe seat and belt situation should have been addressed in tech.  I doubt the guy re-did the seat and belts on Mon or Tue following a racing weekend...

[38bfast]

I have seen many safety violations that have passed tech for years. When I point them out to a customer they respond is "well it passed its annual that way". I have refused to work on customers cars unless the violations are addressed. I dont want my name associated with things that are flat out dangerous.

[38bfast]

Just for people to note. When buying a used car, find an expert to review / inspect it before you buy it. I have seen so many cars become a money pit because the previous owner was not skilled in building or maintaing a race car.

The thing that bothers me the most is the lack of quality, engineering or flat out illegal cage work being done. I see it much more on the older builds.

[ChrisA]

Never skimp on good beer.

[Tom Sager]

Spare keys.  Don't skimp on them.  Can never have too many.  You even need a spare key person.  The person responsible for having a spare when you yourself cannot find any of the race car keys.  

[av8tor]

Spare keys.  Don't skimp on them.  Can never have too many.  You even need a spare key person.  The person responsible for having a spare when you yourself cannot find any of the race car keys.  

We safety wire the key to the column.  Don't forget the spare key to the trailer and the tow beast.  How many times has someone locked the key in the tow beast after running across the paddock to get something in a rush?

[steveracer]

Extra trailer keys on the race car ring so I don't have to sit and sweat while my wife meanders back to the trailer.

 

Extra trailer keys in the truck(keyless entry on truck)

 

Spare car key in gear bag

[Tom Sager]

This could be A very long list. But just to get it started.
Cage, I see so many cages that come through the shop that are outright illegal by the rules. Bars that are bent that must be straight. Welds that are not 360. Diagonal placed wrong. Then there are things that meet the rules but are outright dangerous. Cross bar that is gurenteed to bust your knees on frontal impact. SFI foam limited and scares. Or no SFI at all. Pool noodle foam.

Belts mounted improperly
Seats mounted improperly
Fire systems held in with sheet metal screws
No seat back braces or none effective braces
Brakes and suspension that has 180,000 miles on them
Brake pads with 1/6 material left on them
Steering wheel bolts not loctite
Kill switches that don't kill the engine
Running wires through sheet metal without grommets
Brake lights that don't work
Antifreeze in the coolant system
Bleed the brakes once a season
Running parts that have been compromised from impact. No visible damage but difinatly been stressed
Wheels that have gouges in the spokes
Fuel lines not attached properly
Coolant leaks that have not been identified
Holes not plugged between trunk and cockpit
Hoes in fire wall
Holes in floor
Brake lines rubbing
Poor electrical / wiring quality
Battery not secure
Broken/cracked parts not identified
Heat checked rotors
Window net not tight
Improperly installed center net
Fire system pulls not secure
Mirrors not addiquit, no blind spots
No internal door release, both doors
Hard tops with missing fasteners
Cam bolts not tight
Bad wheel bearings and having no clue that they are bad.
Missing intake brace
Missing exhaust brace. Down pipe to trans
Not proper head clearance
Sharp edges on door gut job
Sway bar end links in bind or bent
Exhaust hitting diff or axels
Pitch welds caved in from jacking
Under tray wth only 1/2 the fasteners
Rad screen not attached per the rules
Engine, trans, diff leaks
Fuel tank baffles broken
Fuel test port installed with underrated materials
Tunnel and shifter boots cracked
Running on corded tires before the car goes on track
Ballast weight not properly attached
Fan not working
99 intake butterfly's not working


That should be a good start to the list

That is a good start, Ralph.   Could you post the complete list here later today?  

[38bfast]

That is a good start, Ralph.   Could you post the complete list here later today?  

 

Not enough band width. 

[Tom Hampton]

Please explain the concern here.  I've seen more cars with mangled pinch welds than not. 

Pitch welds caved in from jacking

[av8tor]

mangled pinch welds are the least of my worries.  In a spec miata build, how important to you guys think the frame is?  My '91 has mangled frame tubes, (the square sections)  A couple of guys have told me that they didn't think I would benefit by rebuilding them as the cage is providing the rigidity at this point.  Thoughts, data, science?, Bueller?

[38bfast]

Pinch welds provide structure to the car if the stay vertical . Same as the seat stiffener rail we all crash. If you fold them over (pinch weld) then the rocker will start to bow as well losing even more structure. The rocker area and tunnel in a covertable car is the only thing keeping the car from folding in half. Yes the cage stiffens up the car but it its best to keep as much integrity to the body.

[38bfast]

Spare car key taped to the underside of trunk.

[38bfast]

Forgot about this one. Make sure you can remove the dash from the car once the cage is welded in. The bargain cages generally just put the a pillar tubes right behind the dash.

[Mark]

Ralph pretty much nailed it but left out one of my pet peeves:

 

Roll cages that make access to the hardtop bracket fasteners nearly impossible to reach. Hardtops should come off/on in 10-15 min max and not be a 2 hr yoga workout.  .

[38bfast]

Ralph pretty much nailed it but left out one of my pet peeves:

 

Roll cages that make access to the hardtop bracket fasteners nearly impossible to reach. Hardtops should come off/on in 10-15 min max and not be a 2 hr yoga workout.  .

A more inclusive cage would have the front upper hard top mounts incorporated in it. Elimination the need for the front upper brackets. Standard practice at our shop. Too dam old for the yoga.