32 replies to this topic

[Krusovice]

Hi,

I've reached the point of installing the cage, and I am finding a number of wires/harnesses that I am wondering about.

 

For example, by the B pillar, near the common ground, there are wires for the defroster and the driver's seat.

 

Questions:
What is the correct way to remove these?  Can I just hack them off and tape off the end, or am I risking shorting something out.

 

Also, while I am planning the car for WRL right now, I want to keep it in such a state that I could run it in a Spec Miata race.  (So I don't want to remove something that would prevent that in the future.)  Can these wires be removed?  (For example the door switch wires/mechanisms, defroster wires, antenna wires and such like.)

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

[Rob Burgoon]

If it doesn't say you can, you can't.

[Rob Burgoon]

And for the love of god don't build a 94.

[Krusovice]

The if it doesn't say... Thing is a bit confusing because I can remove seats and bits so where does that end?

And why not a '94?

(It may never run a Spec Miata race anyway; just curious.)

[dstevens]

It says you can remove seats and specifically what can be done to the floor.  In fact it specifically says to remove the passenger seat.  The wiring harness must stay intact with all conductors and connectors. It's one of silly rules in SM but a rule none the less.

[Rob Burgoon]

The if it doesn't say... Thing is a bit confusing because I can remove seats and bits so where does that end?

And why not a '94?

(It may never run a Spec Miata race anyway; just curious.)

 

Least popular car is most likely to get screwed in parity talks.  All new builds should be NBs with the way the wind is blowing in the class.

[Jamz14]

It says you can remove seats and specifically what can be done to the floor.  In fact it specifically says to remove the passenger seat.  The wiring harness must stay intact with all conductors and connectors. It's one of silly rules in SM but a rule none the less.

There is some ambiguity with this. It says that I can remove certain systems like the airbag system. So part of that system would be the wiring. Therefore I believe you could legally remove everything in that system including the wiring harness bit. I believe you could legally remove the radio wiring.I think you could legally remove the cruise control wiring and connectors.

[Bench Racer]

There is some ambiguity with this. It says that I can remove certain systems like the airbag system. So part of that system would be the wiring. Therefore I believe you could legally remove everything in that system including the wiring harness bit.

Lets focus on the airbag. By rule, "Airbag system shall be disarmed and may be removed".

 

Let it be suggested that the airbag/bags and sensors may be removed. Airbags and sensors would consist of exactly what one would purchase by Mazda part number for an airbag or the airbag sensor................ You'll find when one removes the airbag/airbag sensors each has some amount of wire and connectors included. < That's what you would receive when ordering an airbag/airbag sensors and that's where you stop removing wire. If you ordered a wiring harness by Mazda part number, the airbag/airbag sensors would not be included. Same with the radio and cruise control. 

 

 One thing we should remember, if we want to remove all this other stuff, step up to another class, production or GT allow much more wide open rules. Shucks, in both of those classes you may implement your own wiring harness.

[Jamz14]

But it doesn't say airbag and airbag sensors. It says system. And the connecting wires are part of the system. And I have no desire to move to another class. I am happy exactly where I am. And I am not gaining an advantage on you by doing so with regards to airbag wiring. But I am eliminating a potential future headache in wire tracing by removing it. And maybe it isn't worth anything. But I am doing it anyway if I am allowed to do so.

[davew]

OR, you could read the entire rule book and find this:

 

p. Electrical Equipment

1. The ECU and engine electrical harness must be as supplied

by Mazda. No modifications are permitted. The ECU

maps and inputs must not be modified. Chips may not be

replaced. The OBDII diagnostic port must be operational in

all 1996-2005 cars.

 

That seems pretty clear to me that you can not cut the pigtails as that would be modifying the wire harness.  That being said, do I cut the connectors off the radio pigtail to wire in certain allowed optional equipment? yes I do. But I do not strip the harness of anything extra.

 

READ read READ and then read again. the answer is in the book

 

Dave

[Jamz14]

Dave, My take on that is the rule book says you can't do something unless somewhere else in the book it addresses it specifically. For example, and this is from NASA rules;

 

11. Engine
11.1.General
11.1.1. All engines, components, and parts must have been offered for sale in a Mazda Miata, sold
by a dealer in the United States of America unless otherwise specified in these rules.
11.1.2. All engines and their internal components must remain stock, except as provided by these
rules, and within factory specified tolerances unless otherwise specified within this document.

 

So according to the above, everything must remain stock unless another section specifically states that it can be done. Wire harness must remain stock, unless a section says you can do something. Now maybe I am getting creative in interpreting it the way I do, but the section on airbag specifically states that I can remove the airbag system.

[davew]

You are reading one book (NASA) and I am reading another (SCCA). 

 

This is a true conversation I had years ago:

 

The rulebook says I can run any brake pad

The pad I want to run does not fit my caliper, there fore I can run bigger calipers

But the calipers don't fit under the required wheel, so I must run bigger wheels and thus bigger tires.

But the bigger tires and wheels don't clear my fenders, so I need wider fenders.

The only wide fenders available are fiberglass.

 

So because brake pads are open, I can run fiberglass fenders.

 

And yes, I really did have the conversation. And yes, it is WAY over the top thinking. But it shows my point. The rule seems VERY clear to me. You can not modify the wire harness, PERIOD.

 

The wire harness rule is there to keep people (like me) from stripping a harness of every inch of unneeded wire. That is an all day project. I know cause I've done it. It saves a lot of weight.

 

As much as I hate to agree with Davey Dew, his description is what the rule  means. Modifying the harness (at least in SCCA) is not allowed. Someplace in the GCR it says something to the effect of an allowed modification may not create a disallowed modification. So can't over rules can.

 

Dave

[Bench Racer]

Thanks Dave.

[Jamz14]

So grace isn't one of my strong suits.........and its a little late for me to bow out with that. But I am going to bow out anyway.

[Krusovice]

Wow. Got some responses.

It made sense to me that if I can gut doors I can remove speaker wires and door switches. And that if I can remove seats I can remove the wires that run to the seat.

The car, after all, still has to make weight.

I will, however, leave them in. Thanks

[Krusovice]

Wow. Got some responses.

It made sense to me that if I can gut doors I can remove speaker wires and door switches. And that if I can remove seats I can remove the wires that run to the seat.

The car, after all, still has to make weight.

I will, however, leave them in. Thanks

[Steve Scheifler]

Dave, by all means, read all the rules, ALL the rules. There is not just one wiring harness. Airbag is a good example, wrapped in with others but really a separate system. The rule you quoted quite explicitly refers to the ECU and engine electrical harness. I can certainly make the case that speaker and window wiring is not part of the engine wiring harness. In fact, I would guess the factory wiring diagrams would be clear enough.

[Bench Racer]

Steve, not to argue and understand your referencing other Dave (Mr. Wheeler), but I'll fall back on the, if one orders an airbag sensor or airbag the items will come with a length of wire and the wire connectors, correct. IIRC the sensor wires are big and blue and the airbag is smaller and blue.

[Jamz14]

Well so much for bowing out. Bench wont respond anyway so no harm. But by benchs interpretation of the rules (SCCA rules). When it says that you can remove the hood latch, you are not allowed to remove the hood latch pull and wire from the cockpit because when you order the OEM hood latch from Mazda it doesn't come with the wire and latch pull.

[Bench Racer]

Removing the hood/trunk pull wires (cable) would be considered illegal is a correct statement IF the latches were removed. BUT, by rule "latches may be disabled or removed", therefore legally one could leave the latches in place and remove the pull cables. And yes I understand the logic for removing the latches.