39 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

well, I broke out of my long standing self imposed NASA retirement this weekend:

 

Some of the reasons why I retired have now come back to me!  The out of class racing is completely insane, people being put 4 off etc by out of class cars way to big of a talent disparity especially for this track.  And of course we got robbed of track time Saturday, we got 2 laps in a 15 minute qualifying session... Really???  We got a 5 minute lecture on the fact that scrubbing tires is of Zero benefit to any driver!!! Really???? Meetings everyday sometimes more then once!  Really???

 

Ok now for the good!  Sign up on line stop at window get a wristband and your in no going to tech to get a sticker to wait in line etc etc!  All sessions were pretty close to being on time.  Tech people with a sense of humor and helpful with a smile, Toe is always awesome at the tent! Low key low pressure in the paddock!  Great venue!

 

 

Started the weekend off leading Adam Roberts around the track for a couple laps so he could find the brake markers etc, then proceeded to follow him rest of the time or radios, but coaching at this event was very tough with so few laps, our first qualifier we were skunked by out of class cars for two laps before we has some room and then we get the checker, so we started right in the back of the middle pack, Funny how that works Adam had a total of 8 laps under his belt so I felt like we were starting where we belonged,  The race started with the 944's in front us for race 1, by t1 I was already hit in the windshield by parts off 944's flying up and over the miatas in front of me, by t3 we have passed all but 3 of the 944's and boy was is interesting, by this time I have Adam in front of Me and we are hooked up we got to p3 by t5 of the second or third lap with only the Brown's up the road, only to have inexperience take over with Adam 4 wheels off outside of t5 and into the trap, as i am looking in mirrors i see he gets him self out of the trap and back on track, so i pull out of the pack pull over and wait, we get back together only to have him go off in t8 a lap or so later, once again I wait, then push him back to p5 although the p1-4 are gone from sight, a lap later Adam lost 5th gear and retired so I picked up my buddy Tyler Brown fresh off his 4 wheel off excursion and pushed him for about 5 laps to his fast lap of the race before passing him at the strip for p5, and collecting some Toyo Bucks, yeehaw!  Tom Brown was the class of the field on Saturday taking the poll and wining the race over Jonathon Davis, with Chris Williams rounding out the Podium!

 

Sunday started and we actually got some nice clean laps in practice which got us to about p6-7 on grid for the qualifyer, and then turned some very consistent laps which put me starting in p4 and Adam p5, We started in front of the 944's this time, with Jonathon Davis leading from the Poll and Chris Williams outside poll Tom Brown in p3, the start was flawless zero contact that I saw and two wide all the way through t3, I got myself in line behind Adam and pushed him right to p2 by t5 before getting split by the leading 944, i guess the 944's did not get much of a gap behind us at the start, the Lead 944 finally got by Jonathon and now he had his very own drafting partner so even with me and Adam back together we just could not close the gap before we eventually got split by out of class traffic once again, 3 laps of double yellow followed by an interesting restart with CMC cars right behind me for the restart as we got swarmed into t1, finally got back to Adam but Jonathon had a PTE car between him and us and the PTE guys were racing for p2 so there was no way through that mess so I backed out in t5 only to have Tom nearly but me into the wall as I guess he wanted us to all go around the outside of t5 with the PTE car on the inside, and I am just not willing to take that risk myself.  As the race finished Jonathon Davis on the top step and he ran a mistake free race and got the traffic luck all day! Adam was p2 tom Brown p3 after giving me the chrome horn, and i finished p4 with the car intact!  Chris Williams was very lucky to avoid a trip to the wall at the kink after a 944 got sideways in front of him the 944 was not so lucky!  

 

Congrats to all 3 of you on the podium!

 

Adam was later Dq'd so I must leave this write up on a sour note, Adam went for a pass up the hill mid race before we saw the yellow and i radioed to not complete the pass which he did not... backed out and fell back in line, although the race director in all his wisdom doesn't give the benefit of the doubt i suppose, Never seen someone dqd for getting beside someone else on a yellow if you dont complete the pass!!!!!  

 

All in all was a fun weekend, hanging with the Whole Brown Family for dinner on Friday night at lake Street, I feel like part of the family with you guys!  Even Grams made it out for the race and all were having a blast!!!  Saturday night with the Roberts family at the Brown Baer bar!  That was alot fun and laughs and one big hang over for Adam's Sweety!

 

Tyler Brown, is coming right up!  fun to watch the next generation go from hanging with Dad and wrenching a bit, to becoming a race driver and driving like a BOSS!  Keep working on it Tyler, it wont be long for you!

[Ron Alan]

"Adam was later Dq'd so I must leave this writeup on a sour note, Adam went for a pass up the hill mid race brefore we saw the yellow and i radiod to not complete the pass which he did not... backed out and fell back in line, although the race director in all his wisdom doesnt give the benifit of the doubt i suppose, Never seen someone dqd for getting beside someone else on a yellow if you dont complete the pass!!!!! "

 

Seen this happen in NorCAL!

[MotoFusi]

I got DQ's at NCM for passing under a yellow when I'm pretty sure I never passed anybody.......Doh.......

[tylerbrown]

 

a lap later Adam lost 5th gear and retired so I picked up my buddy Tyler Brown fresh off his 4 wheel off excursion and pushed him for about 5 laps to his fast lap of the race before passing him at the strip for p5, and collecting some Toyo Bucks, yeehaw! 

 

All in all was a fun weekend, hanging with the Whole Brown Family for dinner on Friday night at lake Street, I feel like part of the family with you guys!  Even Grams made it out for the race and all were having a blast!!!  Saturday night with the Roberts family at the Brown Baer bar!  That was alot fun and laughs and one big hang over for Adam's Sweety!

 

Tyler Brown, is coming right up!  fun to watch the next generation go from hanging with Dad and wrenching a bit, to becoming a race driver and driving like a BOSS!  Keep working on it Tyler, it wont be long for you!

 

Very beautiful weekend at Road America for May for my first NASA event.

 

My dad and I started the weekend running together in the two "15" minute practice/qualifying sessions that turned into checkered at 12 minutes. We were going faster each lap but due to only having two flying laps per session you had to get them in quick. For the qualifying session we put in a good lap for the first lap which got us P1 and P2, and were on our way to do a faster lap as well, until my left front lower ball joint sheared in turn 3. Nobody else improved that lap so our starting positions were P1 and P2 for the race. After fixing the lower ball joint and also replacing the inner tie rod that was also bent, we started the race side by side behind the 944s for the start. By turn 1 we were right on the 944s and by turn 3 there was a 944 spinning off the track on the outside and slow cars in the middle of the track, and my dad and I split those cars and we came into turn 5 P1 and P2. With pushes from my dad we started to gap the field a little bit, until I ran out of talent in turn 8 on the third lap, turning in too aggressively and then having to go in the grass in the outside of 8, I thought I was going to be able to save it, but the car hit a very large bump in the grass that bottomed out the car and made my car do a complete 180. After that I rejoined behind Kyle Webb who was pushing Adam until Adam lost a trans, and then Kyle decided to push me around and see what I was doing.  After the race he gave me some pointers and tips for driving better, which helped me into Sundays race. 

 

My dad was able to win Saturdays race in our new car 'The Silver Savage' that I built over the winter, very very cool to see the car performing well. Again a big thanks to all those who helped me while building this car including East Street Racing for the Motor, Advanced Autosports for many of the parts, tips, experience, and cage, and then our sponsor Winding Road Racing! 

 

On Sunday my dad, Jonathon Davis and I hooked up for practice and it was working very well, come qualifying on the beginning of the first flyer we caught traffic that botched my lap but not theirs and they went to set fast times, come the next lap I got hit with traffic again. With 5 minutes left in the session my dad dropped back to pick me up so that we could get one more flyer in, but then the checkered was already flying 11 minutes into the session, so I did not get a good lap. My dad qualified P3 and I P7. This time the spec miatas started in front of the 944s, which I thought was better, the racing was clean and fun while it lasted, I made it to turn 12 before I heard hard tire lock up just as I was about to turn in, I looked in my mirror and saw a car spinning out of control from a dive bomb move from two cars back and I had to drive off track to avoid getting hit. I was able to rejoin but was a decent ways back from the pack again. I started to make my way back through a couple of cars before a long full course caution came out. On the restart I got a great start with help from radios and was able to pass many cars that were still off the power when the green flew. At this time the lead pack was close and thought I might have been able to get to them while they were working through traffic, until I had to work through that same traffic. I had a good view to watch the last lap unfold in front of me, traffic played a big part in the race. Not sure exactly what Kyle was saying about my dad giving him the chrome horn, he bump drafted him at the crest of the hill at the non-existent 6 marker before 5 if thats what he is talking about..... Jonathan had a great drive and was able to hold off Adam, my dad and Kyle until the end.

 

Overall an okay weekend (P7 and P5) for me and a good weekend (P1 and P3) for my dad. Wish that I didn't have to avoid that incident in turn 12 so I could have gotten some racing experience with the front pack but oh well, thats racing. Thanks to Kyle for pushing me Satruday so I wasn't all alone and getting me some more experience being the front car of a draft partner, and for the help after the race. A very big thanks to my dad as well for letting me drive, were having a blast driving together, couldn't think of anything more cool to be doing with my dad than racing together.

 

Here is my video from Sunday

https://www.youtube....h?v=qnkn4AkbNvc

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Was totally accidental but it was still chrome. He was thinking about p2 while I was thinking about having to rebuild a car... I am just not willing g to go side by side with a pte car In to 5 while he was feeling ok with it. I was trying to get out of being the meat in that sandwich I lifted and tried to get off Adams bumper so I would not get put into him again, as he had lifted also, and as I lifted I gave the wave for Tom to lift, he saw it after
he hit me hard one last time. It's all apart if this multi class racing that I really do not prefer. Had that guy not been there Tom would have been able to attempt a good pass attempt in that corner which might have worked...

[Rob Burgoon]

Yeah, NASA defines being alongside as passing, not just at pass completion.  RTFM and all that 

[FTodaro]

we started the race side by side behind the 944s for the start. By turn 1 we were right on the 944s and by turn 3 there was a 944 spinning off the track on the outside and slow cars in the middle of the track, and my dad and I split those cars and we came into turn 5 P1 and P2.

 

I had a good view to watch the last lap unfold in front of me, traffic played a big part in the race.

 

 

 

Tyler, At the Nasa event at Mid Ohio. the same kind of thing happened. They started the 944 group in front of us, I had the pole and they told me to start about 20 car lengths behind them, well we caught them by the first corner and it was a huge factor in the race trying to get around the slower 944 guys. 

 

There are some things I like about NASA but the mixed class is not one of them. They sell out two run groups so you are in a full capacity run group with mixed talent and speed. Just not much fun, IMO.

 

They used to have 3 run groups Lightning Thunder and storm. I think that needs to come back. IMO.

 

Glad to see you and your dad getting it done.

[tylerbrown]

 

we started the race side by side behind the 944s for the start. By turn 1 we were right on the 944s and by turn 3 there was a 944 spinning off the track on the outside and slow cars in the middle of the track, and my dad and I split those cars and we came into turn 5 P1 and P2.

 

I had a good view to watch the last lap unfold in front of me, traffic played a big part in the race.

 

 

There are some things I like about NASA but the mixed class is not one of them. They sell out two run groups so you are in a full capacity run group with mixed talent and speed. Just not much fun, IMO.

 

They used to have 3 run groups Lightning Thunder and storm. I think that needs to come back. IMO.

 

Glad to see you and your dad getting it done.

 

 

In my head I was comparing our run group to the four 7 hour Chumpcar Enduros that we have done at Road America, with such a wide variety of car's speed and handling capabilites with really talented drivers to ones that do not seem to understand race craft or to get out of the way of a race that you're not a part of. It would be awesome if they could have just a spec miata class but with a car count of like 11 cars I see why that is not reasonable. I do not know how their hpde program works but it seems like there should be more race groups than hpde groups.

 

The other thing too was the session lengths, why have two 15 minute sessions (practice/qual) in the morning that they checkered at 11 minutes? I dont know if some prefer that way but I would rather have a 25 minute qualifier and no practice. 

[tburas56]

My first event with NASA, I caught the no scrubbing tire thing and spoke to the head guy. OK understood, no scrubbing tires, so down into turn one I go at SAVANNAH with old tires, loose and sideways, DQed for scrubbing tires. Started DFL with Danny and Blake next to me for the same. Oops...

[Steve Scheifler]

Their clock has always run from when the first car starts out until the last car should come in, so they checker 1 slow lap early.

I would guess that the no scrubbing rule, which is new to me, is to speed up the out lap because people complain that it uses up too much of the already short session. Everyone needs to be on the same page or it gets dicey. In any case they should explain it better.

If we could just get people to maintain some pace on the in lap maybe we'd get better tire pressure/temp readings.

[Jim Drago]

Tyler,

I don't know the driver in he video who sailed by in twelve, I hope they watched your video as they also made a dive bomb attempt at 8 that almost wrecked you both, immediately followed by the move in 12. That was not good.  I have been hit in twelve by harry manning after he Voytek were playing chicken going into that corner, ended up with a really damaged car that was on its third race weekend and a concussion.  Not fun.

Jim

[Jim Drago]

My first event with NASA, I caught the no scrubbing tire thing and spoke to the head guy. OK understood, no scrubbing tires, so down into turn one I go at SAVANNAH with old tires, loose and sideways, DQed for scrubbing tires. Started DFL with Danny and Blake next to me for the same. Oops...

My first with this was at Barber... I was on pole and they told me they were taking away my best lap for scrubbing tires, which I still disagree I was doing. I was going 10/10 from side to side warming tires with no one close or closing on me.  In any event.. saying "  You are only taking my best lap correct? "  he replied "yes, that's correct"  the best thing to do in this instance is to walk out.. perhaps I shouldn't have said that's fine the next two still put me on pole as they took all my laps and moved me to DFL.  Still the worst I have been treated by a race official.  He expected me to sit and be lectured like a 2nd grader. I just wanted my penalty and to leave and get on as I had work to do.  He went on and on and then threatened me with you can pack up and leave.. Which I was fine with, just make a decision and get on with it. Still probably the biggest #@$%&  I have run across in racing.  

this was early on in NASA, like 2007/8, I have raced with them since and never run into this person again, don't remember his name even. I have with Jim and Julie Pantas since several times and they go out of their way to be nice and accommodating IMO. 

[Rob Burgoon]

  Still the worst I have been treated by a race official.  He expected me to sit and be lectured like a 2nd grader. I just wanted my penalty and to leave and get on as I had work to do.  He went on and on and then threatened me with you can pack up and leave.. 

 

The other org is full of those sorts of officials too, haha!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

If no scrubbing is a NASA rule then its a rule, but to say it is of no bennefit or that there is zero advantage to doing it is outlandish at best, lets just take F1 out of the equation, and then how many race series do not scrub tires on outlap of the race, i can maybe see it for qualifying as we are not starting side by side, and i rarely if ever scrub tires in qualifying...  ALMS, Tudor, Nascar, Indy, as far as i know every major race series, the best drivers in the world scrub their tires, so does NASA know something that they do not???

[Tom Hampton]

perhaps I shouldn't have said that's fine the next two still put me on pole as they took all my laps and moved me to DFL.

Yeah....probably not. Kinda like my teenager saying, "fine! I didn't want to go out anyway. I'll just play on my xbox!" My response..."oh really! Well then..."

[Keith Williamson]

NASA-SE does not have a rule against scrubbing tires on the out lap of Qualification.  But NASA does have a rule that says you can only scrub tires under full course Yellow.  Because the qual session in NASA-SE is very short, we go out under a green flag.  Jim Pantas has said several times that when he has asked the drivers if they wanted to go out under yellow or green, the majority have said green.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

 

if you notice in this vid when he is drivign straight no tire warming is hapening.

[Tom Hampton]

NASA-SE does not have a rule against scrubbing tires on the out lap of Qualification.  But NASA does have a rule that says you can only scrub tires under full course Yellow.  Because the qual session in NASA-SE is very short, we go out under a green flag.  Jim Pantas has said several times that when he has asked the drivers if they wanted to go out under yellow or green, the majority have said green.

Nasa TX is same. But, getting everyone to understand and comply seems to be problematic.

[Rob Burgoon]

All I know is having to go off to avoid hittong some moron who wants to weave under green sucks.

[Tom Hampton]

All I know is having to go off to avoid hittong some moron who wants to weave under green sucks.

No doubt. As does wasting 1-2 minutes of a 15 minute qual "impatiently waiting" for the pack to GO!