37 replies to this topic

[davew]

I am only passing this on so you don't get hasseled at the track.

 

At Mid Ohio at least one competitor was found with the exhaust manifold heat shield painted. The tech guys asked that the paint be removed and the car reinspected. There was no penalty assesed. Their logic was that the paint could be a heat barrier and they want to eliminate the possibility.

 

In my conversation with Jon Bauer, he stated that the firewall VIN code is going to be the official VIn code that they worry about. Door tags, dash tags etc. are no longer required to match the logbook or the firewall stamping. I checked all my cars to make sure the firewall number matched the logbook. And that the firewall number matched the year of car I was claiming to be. I removed any dash tags that did not match.

 

Maybe someone currently on the SMAC has better info than I.

 

Dave

[KW78]

Ok i'll bite...

 

This is another example of SCCA tech playing "gotchya".

 

If they want to play that game, they really need to read the rule book better and stop pulling sh!t out of their ass.

 

First of all, you are allowed to paint things.  There is a specific list of things you can't paint.  Heat shield is not on that list.  Exhaust manifold is, heat shield is not.

 

Second of all, you can paint the heat shield with a thermal barrier.  That is specifically allowed.  The heat shield lives a very rough life and gets dilapidated with street duty at the donor stage, not to mention racing it at WOT for a few years.  

 

"Refurbishment" procedures are allowed.  it is SPECIFICALLY ALLOWED  to "use industry standard procedures to repair damaged non-engine components".  So tech, how do we rebuild a heat shield???  You sandblast the rust, weld up the cracks, PAINT IT WITH A HEAT PAINT, and replace the asbestos-like heat blanket material....

 

Or do we want to write a rule that specifically makes the class spend another $150 on heat shields with mazda... (is the 1.6 shield system even still available?)

 

Complete crap.  Jon Bauer and crew need to be educated that spec miata is not showroom stock miata of a 5 year old or less car....    

 

Kyle

[speedengineer]

^I agree.  The way the rules are written, the heat shield can be painted.  I'm not sure what they were going for with that at tech this weekend.  If they want to start teching heat shield paint, they the rules would need to be changed, imo.  I don't think we want the rules to change...

[Jim Drago]

And the enforcement of the vin rule on cowl is NOT what the current states.  So this enforcement is contrary to the GCR. My understanding is this rule is being changed so this enforcement meets the new rule in the GCR.  This is nothing more than a witch hunt by one member, costing others time and money and accomplishing nothing whatsoever.  Whatever they "think" is going on will still be going on as it takes a few hours to weld a vin section into the cowl.  I know of several that have been done in the last 4-6 weeks since this first surfaced and I have refused selling them atleast 5 times. So people will be prepared for this nonsense...   

[Steve Scheifler]

Oh fun, let's get into another "intent" debate! Let's start with an exact quote from the rules rather than paraphrasing.

f. No portion of the exhaust may be wrapped with any type of insulating tape, nor shall any portion of the exhaust, internal or external, be coated with any thermal coatings.

Note that it states "any portion of the exhaust". Define exhaust.

And then there is "thermal coating". Isn't any paint a thermal coating to some degree?

If you think the shield is part of the exhaust and paint is a thermal coating, then what about clamps and hangers? Ridiculous? Where do you draw the line if not on "intent"?

On the other hand, if the header shield can be painted then why not the original shield around the down-pipe?

I prefer parity debates.

[Steve Scheifler]

From the glossary:

Exhaust System – A passive system, whose components serve to convey the exhaust of an engine past the driver and away from the car.

Not much help. The rule does not use the term "system" and the rules don't define exhaust.

[FTodaro]

Painted Intake

I was going to post on this earlier today only to point out that an inspection of the heat shield would determine if its just paint or thermal paint. Even if it was thermal paint what difference could it make. We paint valve covers, is that next??

 

I put this tech compliant in the same category as the double restrictor plate gasket rule... BS

 

Lets keep tech to the things that truly make some difference and stop waiting our time.

[Bench Racer]

OEM exhaust manifold heat shield.

 

Is the OEM exhaust manifold heat shield painted or plated?

 

What happened to the good old saying if it doesn't say you can, you can't ? Per rule, Authorized Modifications....................

[Steve Scheifler]

The usual reply Bench, when the rules explicitly disallow painting certain items only, it implies that everything else can be painted.

[Bench Racer]

Then how about we return to about page one.

 

Interpreting and Applying the GCR.

Interpreting the GCR SHALL  not be strained or tortured and applying the GCR SHALL be logical, remembering that the GCR cannot specifically cover all possible situations.

 

1990 FSM P-115, Exhaust System

Illustration of exhaust with parts, nuts bolts, gaskets, bracket and heat shield.

 

Rule under Exhaust System:

 

No portion of the exhaust may be wrapped with any type of insulating tape, nor SHALL any portion of the exhaust, internal or external, be coated with any thermal coatings.

 

Seems there is some rule clarification happening thru the CCC.

[Jim Drago]

this is sooo stupid!

[speedengineer]

Lolz.  Regarding interpreting the GCR logically, how about we start with:  A thin layer of spray paint is not a thermal coating. 

 

What's next....better make sure you don't leave any greasy fingerprints on the heat shield, cause it might be considered a thermal coating!!!

[ChrisA]

Lolz.  Regarding interpreting the GCR logically, how about we start with:  A thin layer of spray paint is not a thermal coating. 

 

What's next....better make sure you don't leave any greasy fingerprints on the heat shield, cause it might be considered a thermal coating!!!

 

The rules don't say you can leave greasy fingerprints, so you better clean them off. But wait!  The rules don't say you can clean them off either... Oh, what are we to do!!! 

[Jim Creighton]

Come on guys, quit whining. A few years ago you wanted to allow paint on the intake manifold and I said I'd make each one I saw strip it off to insure it wasn't coated under it. The rule got changed back the next month. Same goes here. Basically, John is trying to keep the cat in the bag. The same goes with the key VIN being the one on firewall. Rumor was there were motors appearing in the wrong year makes. Again, John is letting it be know it will not be tolerated. Does the paint do anything?  Beats me! But, it could hide something. No paint, nothing hidden. And two gaskets? Did it come with two gaskets? Does it say you can remove one?

 

John is just trying to save you from yourselves. Once one person does something, two more will do it and then next thing you've all got to do it.

 

C. AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS
The following items represent the only modifications and safety items
permitted and/or required on Spec Miata automobiles other than safety
items as required in Section 9.

 

Sorry, just can't find where it says anything about paint be allowed on the heat shield.

 

You asked for tough tech. You even said you'd spend more money for it. OK. This is an all or nothing thing. Tech can't decide which part of the rules make a difference. Tech does not "interpret" the GCR. The Stewards do that. And boy that's dangerous. Go ask each steward how much experience they have in building race cars. So, you'd rather have the stewards enforce the rules rather than John & the tech guys. I can't wait to see how that works for you.

 

Good luck!

 

I'm sure a few of you will blast me for this and that's fine. From past experience, the silent majority will agree and it is for you guys that I stay involved with SM and tech.

 

I'm back to short track racing this weekend at Tri County Motor Speedway in beautiful Granite Falls, NC. Spent last night up at Cumberland Gap National Park. We forget sometimes how lucky we are to have our National Parks. I even went on a 4 mile hike up into the mountains. I may recover in a week or two!

 

 

[38bfast]

i give up. I could care less what you coat your heat shield with. If bear shit works for you have at it.

[RWP80000]

" And two gaskets? Did it come with two gaskets? Does it say you can remove one?"

 

Not sure what Jim is eluding to here as "as produced" there was only a single gasket between the throttle body and intake manifold.  Many people interpreted the restrictor plate to take the place of the production gasket but even if you interpret the rules to required retention of the original gasket there was nothing stipulated in the rules to say on which side of the restrictor plate it need to be placed (which matters not).  SCCA's requirement of two gaskets comes from their concern for leakage past the plate but you can still have that with two gaskets if the bolts/nuts are left loose.  Maybe Tech should be checking for a minimum torque on all four of the bolt/nut fasteners prior to anyone "messing under the hood" when it comes into impound.

 

My personal feeling is that even the 1.6L should be required to run a specified size restrictor plate so that Extrude-A-Honed intakes would not be a source of worthwhile power enhancements and everyone would be working with the same rule requirements.

 

Rich Powers

[jrhenson]

I was one who had a painted heat shield. I run a 1.6. Luckily I am a local and have a sandblast cabinet in my shop or I'd have been sanding on my shield all night. I am willing to play the games to a point, but this was a bit touchy in my opinion. Of course, I'd much rather have had to take care of this issue than to pull my transmission to check the flywheel or pull the head, etc. I have been tech'd numerous times and this is the first time that the bright orange shield has gotten any attention.

 

Anyway, it is clean now. There goes that little bit of help...

[Jim Drago]

I was one who had a painted heat shield. I run a 1.6. Luckily I am a local and have a sandblast cabinet in my shop or I'd have been sanding on my shield all night. I am willing to play the games to a point, but this was a bit touchy in my opinion. Of course, I'd much rather have had to take care of this issue than to pull my transmission to check the flywheel or pull the head, etc. I have been tech'd numerous times and this is the first time that the bright orange shield has gotten any attention.
 
Anyway, it is clean now. There goes that little bit of help...

How much slower were you when you removed the special coating? 3 or 4 seconds per lap ?

[MotoFusi]

Thank God! My heat shield is not painted. I thought it was just my poor driving.......................................

 

I did get pulled into tech on Saturday. I failed to place the mandatory "Majors" stickers on my car.

[FTodaro]

I was one who had a painted heat shield. I run a 1.6. Luckily I am a local and have a sandblast cabinet in my shop or I'd have been sanding on my shield all night. I am willing to play the games to a point, but this was a bit touchy in my opinion. Of course, I'd much rather have had to take care of this issue than to pull my transmission to check the flywheel or pull the head, etc. I have been tech'd numerous times and this is the first time that the bright orange shield has gotten any attention.

 

Anyway, it is clean now. There goes that little bit of help...

You were not the only one, there was a 99 or VVT with a black painted heat shield. (not me) but I saw the inspection of this on Saturday after qualifying.