69 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

Todd, thanks for the ride.

 

Great up until pick your point.

 

17:13 Defense

17:22 Dive boom/could have been a big WOW

17:39 Maybe/fake/naw better not

17:46 Butt fudge, WOW

20:30 Which lane belongs to who, WOW

24:30 WOW, which lane belongs to who

[FTodaro]

Nice post Todd, I think we are close to consensus on the need for "contact impound".

I like the idea of impounding cars in and near incidents for video, but we as drivers can volenteer it also. At least till we get this cleaned up.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

The problem is Frank that some feel giving video is like snitching...

If you go grab someones vid and run to the stewards with it that might be snitching, but around and accident just hand over your sd card to the steward and go your merry way.

The stewards brought up how many of us in the past have said oh man I did not get video of that... It does happen but there is nearly always someone with video a car or two away.

NASA pretty much says you have to have video, nothing they can really do if you don't, but most of us run it anyway. I never run it unless I am coaching or racing almost never in quality or practice, as I can't reach the cam and traqmmate cannot turn it on for me even though I upgraded so it could.

[38bfast]

video would not have to be mediatory but you lose credibility in your defense without it. 

[Jim Drago]

We can "snitch" or continue having people drive like asshats and eventually getting someone seriously hurt or killed...  

[Tom Sager]

The problem is Frank that some feel giving video is like snitching...

If you go grab someones vid and run to the stewards with it that might be snitching, but around and accident just hand over your sd card to the steward and go your merry way.

The stewards brought up how many of us in the past have said oh man I did not get video of that... It does happen but there is nearly always someone with video a car or two away.

NASA pretty much says you have to have video, nothing they can really do if you don't, but most of us run it anyway. I never run it unless I am coaching or racing almost never in quality or practice, as I can't reach the cam and traqmmate cannot turn it on for me even though I upgraded so it could.

I think the "snitching" feeling goes away if everyone is subject to the same reasonable rules that include video submission and review when video is requested.  Also what Jim said is very important.    

[davew]

World Challenge is sponsored by RePlay cameras. You are required to run a front and rear facing camera. You are required to turn in the chip within a certain time frame after EVERY session. failure is a monetary fine to the team and maybe more.

[FTodaro]

Kyle, I fully understand snitching, but let's face it, we sometimes have to do things we would rather not do, for the sake of the grater good.

I don't want to be s part of the SCCA police either, but if we don't take a serious step to fix this it will be the same old shit.

I also had an idea that we need to give the stewards a list of car numbers with cooresponding cell phone number, so when they do review a video and see the number 35 car did a bonehead move they can text me to come down to the impound.

We all have our phones, and the stewards need a way to communicate with the drivers, the PA system at some tracks is not reliable.

So when you get a text that says bring video, you know to grab your chip. Or if you forget to go to impound the text may read, bring your car and video dumb ass.

[Todd Lamb]

VIRB Garmin is/was SCCA sponsor. But any camera is fine.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I wasn't saying we shouldn't give up our videos I was just simply saying I think I know why most don't want to give up their videos, nobody wants to be a rat especially when it's your buddy that's at fault!

It also seems to me this year has been the year of carnage all through the field it seems, but it also seems to me this has been the deepest that most of these fields have been with around 12 guys who could all win a majors at every one of the races not just the normal 3-4 guys. Also we have a lot of young guys who have joined the circuit this year and I am happy about that myself, and not blaming them for anything here, some of them want to go pro and have legitimate shot at it, mix that in with a bunch of guys used to racing a certain way and pretty much knowing what each other will do in situations and you have maybe more opportunities to have contact.

[Roberts37]

My video from Sunday.

 

https://youtu.be/VinxkUquOh4

[Bench Racer]

[Danica Davison]

World Challenge is sponsored by RePlay cameras. You are required to run a front and rear facing camera. You are required to turn in the chip within a certain time frame after EVERY session. failure is a monetary fine to the team and maybe more.

 

I was told that Global MX5 cup makes them turn in all video and data within 30 minutes or they get DQed.  I think it is great for pro racing to have that rule for sure.  I think I like the idea of that for SM, but, I would hate for someone to get DQed in Spec Miata because they forgot to turn on the camera, charge it, or for some reason just didn't work.  As most of us are getting our own cars ready, things like that are generally one of the lower priorities if we are in a rush.

 

I think it would be fun, at every majors race, if we have the impound all after the session and SCCA brings out a big projector screen and we watch the video from all of the "racing incidents" that were called in by corner workers.  We do it every time an autotechnik/old dogs car gets in a wreck.  Like 20 of us all go into Mark Gibbon's trailer since it has a big TV.  It generally ends up in a lot of laughing and shit talking about who did what wrong (even if it is us) and it can be very productive while also offering some entertainment! 

 

I know it doesn't sound like I am being serious, but I think embarrassing people for their asshat moves on a big screen in front of their peers could be pretty effective. 

[Danny Steyn]

I like NASA's contact rule. If you have contact, YOU MUST REPORT TO IMPOUND directly from that session and fill out paperwork, and hand in video.

 

^^^^^^^^  THAT ALONE makes you want to avoid contact. ^^^^^^^^^^

 

NASA's most important line on their paperwork basically asks the question....... what can be done to avoid a situation like this in the future? And you need to fill it out! And if you are a smartass with your comment, there is a chance that you might be sanctioned. Basically means that they take this stuff seriously, not like SCCA.

 

Plus watching the same incident from two or more different camera angles is often very insightful. 

[Jim Drago]

1 Basically means that they take this stuff seriously, not like SCCA.

 

Yeah, don't get me started with NASA and taking things seriously...  We can start with NASA tech staff... not qualified and very unprofessional!  

[Parity]

NASA may not be perfect but with respect to contact I do think they have a leg up on SCCA. I've been DQ'd from a race because I forgot to fill out a contact form. Since then I don't forget. Also, unless there is a catastrophic incident, the process is fairly quick which is nice for amateur racers who don't have a crew and have little spare time between sessions.

[FTodaro]

Yeah, don't get me started with NASA and taking things seriously... We can start with NASA tech staff... not qualified and very unprofessional!

Just like the SCCA, NASA has its regions, so what may be true down south, may not be true everywhere.

Just a point, we don't want to talk about this in terms of what NASA does, that will derail the idea. We need to fine tune this for what will work with SCCA.

I just hope there is an educational component to this as we do not do a good job of mentoring new drivers.

The back and mid pack incidents are often due to a lack of knowledge that it's the wrong move.

Can't repeat Todds comment enough, not every opening is a passing opprotuinty.

[davew]

Not only is every opening not a passing opportunity, you do not have to win every corner, every straightaway on every lap. Case in point, Sundays June Sprints race, Voytek led about 100 yards, the last 100 yards under the checker.

 

The only way to learn how to be a smart racer is to gain experience. But experience takes time. We have a lot of very talented youngsters in this class. They qualify well. And can turn fast lap times with the leaders. But they lack the race craft that comes with experience. They see the Voytek's, Lamb's Steyn's of our world doing things and they want to do the same thing. Without that experience, they make poor judgements on when to do the risky moves. If anyone has a way to inject these kids with the knowledge that only experience can teach, we will make a fortune together.

 

The same things happen mid pack. The Gingerman wreck was mid pack. We all race in this class because we want close competition. We have very equal cars. We are all type A personalities who strive to win. We need to remember that we do this for fun. We need to respect each other. As bad as it would be for me to get hurt on the race track, I would feel much worse if I were the one who injured (or worse) one of my respected competitors.

 

Dave

[Bench Racer]

Throwing out another 1 cent worth. Bump drafting seems to be the illegal norm within the SCCA. Are drivers capable of differentiating between bump drafting and every other type of smash drafting, side drafting and every other type of smashing. Is it a possibility that if the illegal dump drafting is eliminated the smashing identity also goes south (pun intended) with it?  Yep, I understand some regions/divisions work around the illegal bump drafting.  

[Tom Sager]

Yeah, don't get me started with NASA and taking things seriously...  We can start with NASA tech staff... not qualified and very unprofessional!  

At one of my first NASA races I got tangled up with a guy at the start.  Video was provided by a 3rd party.  By the time they called me in to get "my side of the story" their minds were made up that I was at fault.  I was definitely the "outsider" in this process.  We reviewed the film together and after watching and listening to me they decided I wasn't at fault and told me so.  Since it was late in the day on Saturday the officials said they would break for dinner and then finish ruling on the incident but told me I had nothing to worry about and that they would call me after dinner to confirm.  They called a while later and told me I was being moved to last place.  I was shocked and they basically said that after discussing the matter over dinner they decided to penalize me.  I didn't argue (much) and finished up the weekend pretty well.

 

Even with that, I'm glad they have the mandatory contact rule as it keeps awareness high and IMO definitely reduces on-track contact.