121 replies to this topic

[davew]

Drivers side you have 3 choices: stock, nothing or plastic with vent

 

Passenger side you have only 2 choices, stock or plastic with vent.

 

Note that nowhere does it say how big or what shape the vent needs to be.

 

Dave

[av8tor]

 

Update

 

1. I think I'm done gutting the doors.  They are still sturdy / not flimsy.  The top section is down to just the final inner layer with some 2" holes cut into it.  I was afraid to cut further as I didn't want the door flopping around but I might cut a couple more 2" holes in them.

 

This was my first time using an angle grinder and hole saw.  This task made a huge, dusty mess of the car and my garage.  The sparks and flying hot pieces were fun.  Glad I was wearing a breathing mask and glasses

 

 

2. I ordered some tow straps to replace the steel tow hooks that are currently on the car.  

 

3. Removed the glove 'box', steel ecu cover and a bunch of other odds and ends on the interior but there wasn't a lot of things to remove to save weight.

 

The heavy metal pieces of the dash bar had already been trimmed out by the cage builder and there really wasn't anything under the dash to remove to save weight so that was largely a fruitless exercise.  I need to weigh all this junk and see where I net out.  I'm nowhere near the 50lbs that I'd like to remove.  Still working on losing personal ballast.  That is taking longer...

 

 

Still to do:

- remove emergency brake

- probably buy a lexan corner window for the pax side.  The stock glass corner window is a little over 1 lb.

- route some cable so I can open the doors from the inside

- brush on some paint to protect the bare metal edges

- wash this nasty, smelly dust off the car

 

Sir, those holes that you cut with the hole saw are not legal - any other opinions?  Carpets, center consoles, cargo bins, seat belts, floor mat, firewall

insulation/blanket, sound deadener patches, undercoating,

radio system, headliners, dome lights, grab handles, sun visors

and their insulating and attaching materials may be removed.

Other than to provide for the installation of required safety

equipment or other authorized modifications, no other driver/

passenger compartment alterations or gutting are permitted.

[av8tor]

you may not be able to remove the corner window in favor of Lexan.  The way I understand the rules (IMO) you can remove completely for safety reasons, ie you are too big to get out the passenger window without it being removed but you can't arbitrarily replace with a lighter product.  Anyone that calls anyone out on that piece of glass (pog) is a POS.  (IMO). 

Or maybe they are just someone interested in preventing rule creep!  Go ahead and label me the Piece of Shit, cause if it isn't legal, it isn't legal period.  Don't worry, I will finish ahead of you in my 100% legal car before I protest you for it.

[MPR22]

Or maybe they are just someone interested in preventing rule creep!  Go ahead and label me the Piece of Shit, cause if it isn't legal, it isn't legal period.  Don't worry, I will finish ahead of you in my 100% legal car before I protest you for it.

Protest me and I will win.  It is a safety hazard and I can't get out without it removed.  It is not rules creep it is common sense and that is how things are done in racing.  Find things that can be done within the rules and be prepared to defend them with the rule book.  And if you are going to be one of those guys.  You better have every single nut on that car that belongs there or you are in an illegal car.  And i can promise you right here and now you are driving an illegal car.  

[av8tor]

Protest me and I will win.  It is a safety hazard and I can't get out without it removed.  It is not rules creep it is common sense and that is how things are done in racing.  Find things that can be done within the rules and be prepared to defend them with the rule book.  And if you are going to be one of those guys.  You better have every single nut on that car that belongs there or you are in an illegal car.  And i can promise you right here and now you are driving an illegal car.  

[av8tor]

Protest me and I will win.  It is a safety hazard and I can't get out without it removed.  It is not rules creep it is common sense and that is how things are done in racing.  Find things that can be done within the rules and be prepared to defend them with the rule book.  And if you are going to be one of those guys.  You better have every single nut on that car that belongs there or you are in an illegal car.  And i can promise you right here and now you are driving an illegal car.  

See you at COTA I hope.

Love and kisses

Kevin Farrell

#121

[Johnny D]

In Theory, don't you need NASCAR bars to do that ? (I can't see or remember if he does)

 

But I agree more along the lines with MRP22, depends on Regional/Major/Super tour and where you placed too.

J~

[av8tor]

Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver

compartment. This ducting shall be located in the driver and/

or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/

alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications

to the bodywork.

To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent

window and vent window supporting frame may be removed

as an assembly. If removed, ducting may be in the passenger

side vent window only.

 

It's not a complicated rule.

[MPR22]

In Theory, don't you need NASCAR bars to do that ? (I can't see or remember if he does)

 

But I agree more along the lines with MRP22, depends on Regional/Major/Super tour and where you placed too.

J~

Yes he needs the nascar bars but it doesnt say how much you can or cant remove to accomplish the fitment of your bars.  Av8tor is probably right about the holes but he could just cut that piece off. 

[MPR22]

 

Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver

compartment. This ducting shall be located in the driver and/

or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/

alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications

to the bodywork.

To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent

window and vent window supporting frame may be removed

as an assembly. If removed, ducting may be in the passenger

side vent window only.

 

It's not a complicated rule.

 

 

 

Ducting may be added to provide fresh air to the driver

compartment. This ducting shall be located in the driver and/

or passenger vent window area by means of a transparent/

alternate vent window material and duct with no modifications

to the bodywork.

To improve driver exit through the window area, the driver vent

window and vent window supporting frame may be removed

as an assembly. If removed, ducting may be in the passenger

side vent window only.

 

It's not a complicated rule.

 

The reason the rule was written was to give explicit permission to remove the driver side window.  Many a competitor was using the safety loophole and the scca decided to explicitly write the rule so all would be aware of what was legal.   So why in the world wouldn't it apply to both egress points in the car.  Some rules are written clearly and some are not.  If you dont' like it write the scca and make them explicitly disallow the removal. 

[MPR22]

See you at COTA I hope.

Love and kisses

Kevin Farrell

#121

Probably not going to be there, but if I am there feel free to come say hello. 

[BNaumann]

So why in the world wouldn't it apply to both egress points in the car.

Because you don't have a containment seat blocking half the window on the passenger side.

[MPR22]

Because you don't have a containment seat blocking half the window on the passenger side.

If a driver can't egress with the little window in there is no way SCCA will mandate it stay. Safety items take presidency over 4 oz plexiglass vents.

[Bench Racer]

On the plastic vent window, if we know the rules, we don't have any POS, riiight Michael. 

[davew]

Ok, you two. If you can not play nice, I am going to pull over and........

 

MPR, you are wrong this time. The rule specificly says  "the driver vent window and vent window supporting frame may be removed" 

 

Removal of the passenger side is non-compliant. Smart, safe, logical are all valid arguements. But as of today not legal.

 

The car pictured has door nascar style door bars. So fully gutting is legal. The holes would be a big MAYBE. Since the holes are not needed to clear safety equipment, I would stand a good chance of saying they are non-compliant. Yet, removing the entire panel that the holes are in would be legal. Nobody said our rules are logical!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Drago]

 

The car pictured has door nascar style door bars. So fully gutting is legal.  Since the holes are not needed to clear safety equipment, I would stand a good chance of saying they are non-compliant. Yet, removing the entire panel that the holes are in would be legal. Nobody said our rules are logical!!!!!!!!!!!!

 I removed the maybe.. I agree with the rest  especially the logical part  

[Alberto]

Wow, never expected that shedding weight and gutting doors could be so fraught with legalities.  Everything I've done to date, I have observed on other cars in the pits over the last 6 years.  

 

I'm going to step away from the angle grinder and hole saw now...

 

All this makes me wonder what Saul's infamous tow hook looked like

[MPR22]

9.3.52. WINDOWS Windows shall be clear or uncolored, except in Production, Super Touring and Touring if no factory or after market clear windows are available. Officials may require the replacement of windshields that are considered a safety hazard. All closed cars shall run with both front door windows fully open

 

Dave, 

 

I win on appeal.  See the GCR is full of conflicting information.  Where is front door window defined.   I say it is the roll down window and the weird little vent window that doesn't vent. 

[Johnny D]

But I can't roll mine down because I have NASCAR bars, both side, so there's a allowance to remove the windows. Correct?

 

J~

[MPR22]

But I can't roll mine down because I have NASCAR bars, both side, so there's a allowance to remove the windows. Correct?

 

J~

Correct.  We are just arguing about the little triangle window also known as the "alternate front widow" according to MPR.