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NA vs. NB subframe bracing

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Best Answer davew , 05-17-2017 10:22 AM

The NB brace does not fit on an NA subframe and vice versa. So unless you allow subframe upgrades, you can not swap the braces. 

 

NA stays on an NA car

NB stays on an NB car

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#1
Brandon

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2 questions

  1. There are differences between the NA & NB subframe braces? What are they?
  2. Is there an issue of swapping between the two (rules notwithstanding)? AKA, do they swap/fit?

Obviously if the NB fits on the NA, while they're presumptively identical, the rules wouldn't support this so would there be problems in permitting this within our rule set?

 

Surprisingly, MSP still offers the NA brace but it's a $170 part so if I can find any brace (NA or otherwise), I'd be good (as before, rules notwithstanding).

TIA!

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#2
davew

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The NA subframe requires the NA brace and the NB requires the NB brace.

 

It is not permisable by current rules to swap the subframes from different years.


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#3
Johnny D

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Brandon, are you talking about these braces ??

http://mazdaracers.c...a-in-scca-nasa/

 

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#4
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2 questions

  1.  
  2. Is there an issue of swapping between the two (rules notwithstanding)? AKA, do they swap/fit?

 

they swap no problem, but steering racks must be changed as well


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#5
Dave D.

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Jim, I think he is asking about the rear subframes.



#6
Brandon

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This rear subframe brace.

127107d1415292361-na-rear-subframe-brace

 

I know the subframes themselves are not permitted per the rules however from what I can tell from pictures online, there may have been anywhere from 3 to 4 different iterations of this brace from 94-95, 96-97, 99-00, 01-05 all with different variations of the cross pieces between the arms.

 

The biggest difference from what I can tell is the 99-00 one appears to bend to the outside direction instead of bending down like mine., the 94-95 may not even have the bend, and the 01-05 have additional cross pieces (front, middle, & rear).

 

I think I've found a 96 version to be a direct swap for what I have but wanted to know what my options were in the future if the alternate years were allowed or not.

 

Thanks again everyone...


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#7
davew

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Copied from the GCR:

 

Subframe braces may be updated to stock 1997 configuration
utilizing the MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development Spec
Miata kit. 2001-2005 (VVT) model years must remove the
additional intermediate underbody/floorpan attached bracing
(Mazda part number N067-56-G11A Base plate & part number
N067-56-H10A cross member).
 
This rule was written befor NB cars where allowed. A change should be made via errors and omissions to specify that this is for all 90-97 cars.
 
Change to "Subframe braces on 1990-1997 cars may be updated to stock 1997 configuration ..."
 
Maybe cousin Jim can get this done easily
 
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#8
Brandon

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Agreed something could (should) be clarified in that manner. Any thoughts as to whether any of the other verstions should be allowed up/down the years?

 

Here is what I'm finding.

 

NA (see the #6 post)

 

NB1

F58479296.jpg

 

NB2

T141880133.jpg

 

I can obviously see a potential benefit of the NB2 bracing over the others (the additional cross pieces) but why shouldn't the NB1 version be allowed anywhere?

It's only different in terms of being bent out instead of down on the passenger side bar...


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#9
davew

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✓  Best Answer

The NB brace does not fit on an NA subframe and vice versa. So unless you allow subframe upgrades, you can not swap the braces. 

 

NA stays on an NA car

NB stays on an NB car


Dave Wheeler
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#10
Brandon

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Ha! Didn't even think of that so thank you for the clarification.

 

The NB brace does not fit on an NA subframe and vice versa. So unless you allow subframe upgrades, you can not swap the braces. 

 

NA stays on an NA car

NB stays on an NB car


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#11
Diller

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Sort of related question - Are the control arms physically the same size from NA to NB? I know there are some small differences (swaybar tabs) but other than that can they swap? 


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#12
davew

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Front lower, rear lower and rear uppers are all interchangable. You will need some different spacers for the sway bars if you swap NA to Nb or NB to NA. Due to part supecesion (sp), these would be legal

 

Front uppers have different ball joints. You must match the year of the upper arm with the year of the front spindle. So NA upper arm with NA spindle. These are supposed to match the year of the car.

 

Dave


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Dave Wheeler
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#13
Alberto

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This rear subframe brace.

127107d1415292361-na-rear-subframe-brace

 

I know the subframes themselves are not permitted per the rules however from what I can tell from pictures online, there may have been anywhere from 3 to 4 different iterations of this brace from 94-95, 96-97, 99-00, 01-05 all with different variations of the cross pieces between the arms.

 

The biggest difference from what I can tell is the 99-00 one appears to bend to the outside direction instead of bending down like mine., the 94-95 may not even have the bend, and the 01-05 have additional cross pieces (front, middle, & rear).

 

I think I've found a 96 version to be a direct swap for what I have but wanted to know what my options were in the future if the alternate years were allowed or not.

 

Thanks again everyone...

 

Does anyone have info about the weld-in brackets to allow the brace from the 94-97 1.8 to be used on the 1.6 front subframe?

Pictures would be appreciated.  I have 2 1.6 subframes and a bent 1.8 subframe.  Would be nice to be able to weld on the 1.8 brackets.


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#14
Brandon

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Alberto,

Again, back to the GCR is where (I think) they specify the 6-piece kit to be purchased which has the necessary capture nuts that are welded in the various places.

Four of the pieces get welded to the subframe, two of them get welded from the interior of the car after cutting holes in the bulkhead.

Or buy an NA8 subframe and swap away after only welding twice.

 

I know a lot of folks have done this on their NA6s and it doesn't seem to be much of a pain other than removing the seat and anything else you might have ahead of the bulkhead on the passenger side.


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#15
Brandon

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Here's a nice article with pics of how it's done:

https://5xracing.com...miataparts.html


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#16
Brandon

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Found it: 0000-04-5999


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#17
Alberto

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@Brandon, Thanks but I was referring to the FRONT subframe, not the rear

Here is the relevant section in the GCR.  It's a bit unspecific and I've never actually seen the parts to update the front subframe of the 1.6 to use the brace from the 1.8  

48800318018_6168529eb0.jpgfront subframe gcr by alberto_mg, on Flickr


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#18
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Does anyone have info about the weld-in brackets to allow the brace from the 94-97 1.8 to be used on the 1.6 front subframe?

Pictures would be appreciated.  I have 2 1.6 subframes and a bent 1.8 subframe.  Would be nice to be able to weld on the 1.8 brackets.

Scroll down to post #16 for pictures.

https://mazdaracers....a-in-scca-nasa/


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#19
Alberto

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^That is for reinforcement plates - not for retrofitting the 1.8 brace onto the 1.6 subframe. 

 

Here is a pic of the 1.8 front subframe with the brace attached for reference:

MAZDA-MX5-Eunos-MK1-1989-1997-FRONT-SUBF

 

 

 

48800722871_1ef237df05.jpgfront subframe brace by alberto_mg, on Flickr


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#20
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Does the 1.6 front sub-frame have capture nuts within the frame? Seems as tho I've seen an aftermarket brace in some 1.6 car other than a Spec Miata. Memory sometimes leaves bit out. Are there holes or anything where show brace attaches.


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